Solid state digital meter?

Jackie62

Help required please. Going insane trying to sort out my elderly mums electricity fiasco.
Her old meter stopped working in early December 2024. She had been on E10 tariff for years. UW arranged for a replacement, but said it needed to be a smart meter. Mum didn't want one, but agreed in the end. Engineer came on 13th December and put new meter in. He said it's a smart meter, solid state digital, multirate. Mum had been on E10, but no longer possible apparently, so engineer said this would be for E7. She's got R1 and R2 readings on this new meter. Fine. Since 13th December, mum has been billed single rate! No E7! Her bill was sky high. Engineer coming on 11th March to recommission the meter, according to UW. Does mum now have a smart meter? Calisen Metering say it's not and is an RTS! Confused beyond belief and my poor mum is very stressed. She's a vulnerable person too. Told UW we will not pay a penny until this mess is sorted out. And we want mums bill reset from 13th December to reflect E7 tariff, which will be a very big difference in cost! I'll post a photo of the meter, if anyone can help. There is no other unit in her electricity cupboard, thanks for any help. 

Ildhund

Jackie62 said:

Engineer came on 13th December and put new meter in. 

Not according to that picture, he didn't. That is a twelve-year-old non-smart meter, possibly refurbished but not re-certified. We can't see whether the system is RTS-controlled or not, so unless you can find a black box somewhere else - the other side of the wall, say - called Radio Teleswitch or similar, I doubt RTS is involved.

The meter replaced looks to have been 23 years old, so probably due for it. Your mother should not have been fobbed off with a second-hand device when she needs a shiny new smart meter to provide the Economy 10 plan she's used to. No amount of 'recommissioning' will convert this into a silk purse, so Mum should insist on having a smart meter exchange on 11 March.

Scot_39

No that's imo an old digital.
There is no comms hub attached.

And as labelled preset for 7 hrs a night so economy 7 not 10.
Certified 2012.
So its not even new.
And nor is it I believe rts.See the Octopus user with same meter asking question about same model I believe
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81284205/#Comment_81284205
Further down on page 6 user confirms Octopus says not rts after several exchanges to the contrary
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81298518/#Comment_81298518

QrizB

Jackie62 said:

Engineer came on 13th December and put new meter in. He said it's a smart meter, solid state digital, multirate. Mum had been on E10, but no longer possible apparently, so engineer said this would be for E7. 

I agree with the two previous posters. That's not a smart meter, is a 13-year-old dumb electronic meter programmed for E7. It has an internal clock and is not RTS.

You need to speak to UW and tell them that their first "engineer" failed to fit a smart meter and should be taken out the back of the workshop for a sound thrashing. The second engineer needs to bring a smart meter with them and actually fit it this time.

Jackie62 said:

Calisen Metering say it's not and is an RTS!

Who are Calisen Metering and what have they got to do with any of this?

Jackie62

QrizB said:

Jackie62 said:

Engineer came on 13th December and put new meter in. He said it's a smart meter, solid state digital, multirate. Mum had been on E10, but no longer possible apparently, so engineer said this would be for E7. 

I agree with the two previous posters. That's not a smart meter, is a 13-year-old dumb electronic meter programmed for E7. It has an internal clock and is not RTS.

You need to speak to UW and tell them that their first "engineer" failed to fit a smart meter and should be taken out the back of the workshop for a sound thrashing. The second engineer needs to bring a smart meter with them and actually fit it this time.

Jackie62 said:

Calisen Metering say it's not and is an RTS!

Who are Calisen Metering and what have they got to do with any of this?

Calisen metering are the meter fitting company used by UW and others I believe...ive been given the runaround by them too! One person said mum has a smart meter fitted, another today says no she hasn't.. Thanks everyone, I'll be waiting for the engineer on 11th March and will ensure we know exactly what is going on... An absolutely dreadful experience for my poor Mum. 

Jackie62

Ildhund said:

Jackie62 said:

Engineer came on 13th December and put new meter in. 

Not according to that picture, he didn't. That is a twelve-year-old non-smart meter, possibly refurbished but not re-certified. We can't see whether the system is RTS-controlled or not, so unless you can find a black box somewhere else - the other side of the wall, say - called Radio Teleswitch or similar, I doubt RTS is involved.

The meter replaced looks to have been 23 years old, so probably due for it. Your mother should not have been fobbed off with a second-hand device when she needs a shiny new smart meter to provide the Economy 10 plan she's used to. No amount of 'recommissioning' will convert this into a silk purse, so Mum should insist on having a smart meter exchange on 11 March.

UW have told Mum that she can no longer have E10, with no explanation why. I am going to insist that they put her back onto it. Her house is really cold by about 4pm on E7. in the cold weather, truly dreadful what UW has done. 

QrizB

Jackie62 said:

UW have told Mum that she can no longer have E10, with no explanation why. I am going to insist that they put her back onto it. Her house is really cold by about 4pm on E7. in the cold weather, truly dreadful what UW has done. 

If they flatly refuse, there are other suppliers who offer E10.

And there are smart tariffs that resemble E10; for example, OVO have "Smart Economy 9" and Octopus have Cosy (for wet heating systems like electric boilers) and Snug (for storage heaters). Depending on exactly what heating system your mother has, there's probably a tariff to suit.

Gerry1

Press the blue button and see what the R2 reading is.  Press it again and it'll probably show t for the Total reading (R1 + R2).  Do the same thing the next day.  If R1 and R2 have both increased then the single rate problem is an accounting issue which can easily be remedied: call them as soon as you have confirmed that both registers are increasing

The bill then needs to be cancelled, re-calculated and re-issued, but this process doesn't need a site visit.

Of course that won't solve the E7 instead of E10 problem, but at least it'll halt the overcharging.

In the meantime, if she has old-style Box of Bricks storage heaters with two knobs, make sure she's setting them correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeB3Xf_qKvA

Scot_39

Jackie62 said:

Ildhund said:

Jackie62 said:

Engineer came on 13th December and put new meter in. 

Not according to that picture, he didn't. That is a twelve-year-old non-smart meter, possibly refurbished but not re-certified. We can't see whether the system is RTS-controlled or not, so unless you can find a black box somewhere else - the other side of the wall, say - called Radio Teleswitch or similar, I doubt RTS is involved.

The meter replaced looks to have been 23 years old, so probably due for it. Your mother should not have been fobbed off with a second-hand device when she needs a shiny new smart meter to provide the Economy 10 plan she's used to. No amount of 'recommissioning' will convert this into a silk purse, so Mum should insist on having a smart meter exchange on 11 March.

UW have told Mum that she can no longer have E10, with no explanation why. I am going to insist that they put her back onto it. Her house is really cold by about 4pm on E7. in the cold weather, truly dreadful what UW has done. 

Not surprised your mum lost E10 - it's happened before - and fear it may well happen to me - on my next meter upgrade - as has to another person at EOn Next - who was on E10.  You might want to take the loss of E10 onto E7 to the Ombudsman - that user did and won compensation up to the date of the submitted report to them - but didn't in end get E10 reinstated - and the Ombudsman couldn't enforce it IIRC.

As E10 a so called legacy tariff at many for existing customers only.  Not available to new customers at most - but a few have managed in past at likes of EDF iirc.

But there is at least one of the big 6 (Ovo) currently reportedly fitting E10 smart meters to their legacy custoer base - at a guess old SSE customers - with electrical heating needing more hours per day - those on variations of RTS E10 and THTC tariffs.

You might want to give them a try - possibly EDF too from some past posts here.  But don't know how their rates will compare to UW.

As @QRizB - depending on your mothers heating - there are a couple of potentially better options out their than even E7 once you actually get an actual smart meter - that works and communicates reliably (as the tariffs rely on modern control and 1/2 hour billing).  Cosy has expensive rates at peak though - so need to be careful about how much she might use then - and iirc its not intended / designed for ALCS control (meter switched heating and hot water like storage heaters and immersion fed by cicuits only live for 10 hours before - hopefully 7 by e7 by next week - iirc).

If UW don't play ball - I'd look to switch and upgrade that way.  But you are likely to be missing any remaining heating season given meter waits in many regions.

[My plan if lose E10 - possibly even if I dont and can get Octopus to upgrade meter over the summer - would be E7 to Snug - for its 6 + key that might just be enough for your mum - the 1 hr afternoon boost in winter (posters here say 3-4pm.  For me the cost is really good - when checked couple of weeks ago - was c30% cheaper / kWh on night rate and yet still 10% cheaper day than even their E7 - and that E7 night rate - a few pence cheaper than my E10 off peak rates - but I need a meter upgrade - and as my meter is working - suspect might struggle right now.]

Are you sure your mother was told it was smart ?

Have UW told you it's smart since - try to get it in writing - if you can - and go into complaint mode ?

The Ombudsman might be interested in this and so might Ofgem via them.  Even for just the loss of E10

As to the old meter - there is a couple of possibilities - this might be a reaction to your mum not wanting smart by a meter fitter trying to be helpful - or possibly smart not being able to be configured in a bad signal area - so any working meter - even an old one - they had in the van as it were - might have been the best option available to the fitter - to stop estimated bills.  

[I suspect there are a few people who object to smart metering - and their are still a number - we still get regular posts here - would have been happy to get that meter - to see them through another 7 years iirc to it's end of certified life].

IIRC Smets 2 didn't start widespread supplier roll out to about 7 years ago - c2018 - no one AFAIK can fit earlier smets1 these days - and your meter is nearly 13 years old from the CE and certification stickers - both those 12's next to CE and in the certification 05/12 mean May 2012.

And all smart electric meters in UK need a communications hub - typical pictures of which are shown here - seperated and a couple of images of 1 meter and hub together - e.g with the transmitter and IHD figure - which are normally plugged straight on top of the actual electricity meter.

https://www.smartme.co.uk/smets-2.html