Flooded Kitchen/Living Room

Altar_Boy

I am submitting this message on behalf of my daughter who lives in a leasehold flat in a seven storey building. She recently returned home from work to discover that her kitchen/living room was flooded throughout to the depth of about 5cm.

It transpired that the waste water pipe in the building had become blocked and as my daughter lives on the 1st floor (garages underneath) the water came back up the pipe and into my daughter's flat causing the flooding. 

The managing agents have resolved the blockage in the waste water pipe but have been reluctant to assist her further repeatedly stating that it is the leaseholders  who are responsible for the inside of their respective leasehold flats.

They provided the name of their insurers but state that it is my daughter who needs to submit any claim together with three different quotes, My daughter is not technical and had no idea of how to obtain quotes given the nature of the damage. Apart from the floor being flooded throughout she has underfloor heating and has been terrified to switch on her heating for fear of electrifying

herself.

This left her unsure as to whether she needed different contractors for not only the damage to the flooring itself but also to the electrics underneath. She also has a number of personal possessions that are badly damaged such as an expensive floor rug etc. The managing agents have been less than helpful in even giving her some advice as to respective contractors she could get in touch with and have also told her that she would have to pay the excess on any insurance claim.

Given that this situation is no fault of my daughter is it correct that she would need to pay any insurance excess? There is also the question as to whether the waste water pipe had been correctly maintained as there appears to be no record of any recent inspection.

Any advice from people who have suffered similar difficulties, or are knowledgable of insurance matters in respect of leasehold properties would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Danny

   

ThisIsWeird

Do waste pipes require regular inspection?
I'm not aware of this, but IF - and it's a big if - you could evidence that the waste pipe was not maintained according to requirements, and that this failure likely added to the incident, then there's a good chance you could cite 'negligence' by the FH/ManCo, and hold them liable for everything.
(Eg, if such blockages are known to occur, and need to be mitigated by regular maintenance - which has not been carried out).
Failing that, it would appear to be an incident that's split between a 'buildings' and 'contents' claim.
So - does your daughter have contents insurance? Phew. Next Q - does she have Legal Protection included? If 'yes', then awesome, and the thing to do is to call them up asap.
Tbh, I'm not sure when the buildings/contents line is drawn in a LH flat. In a FH property, it's often as simple as - turn your house upside down, and anything that falls or moves is 'contents'. Anything fixed is 'buildings'.
It would appear to be different for LH properties, as the examples I've read on this forum seem to suggest that patching plasterboard and redecorating comes under 'contents', which seems unfair to me.
Anyhoo - does she have contents insurance? If so, call them up - they should direct her as to the steps to take. Does she have LegProt? Fab - call them up first.

Emmia

ThisIsWeird said:

Do waste pipes require regular inspection?
I'm not aware of this, but IF - and it's a big if - you could evidence that the waste pipe was not maintained according to requirements, and that this failure likely added to the incident, then there's a good chance you could cite 'negligence' by the FH/ManCo, and hold them liable for everything.
(Eg, if such blockages are known to occur, and need to be mitigated by regular maintenance - which has not been carried out).
Failing that, it would appear to be an incident that's split between a 'buildings' and 'contents' claim.
So - does your daughter have contents insurance? Phew. Next Q - does she have Legal Protection included? If 'yes', then awesome, and the thing to do is to call them up asap.
Tbh, I'm not sure when the buildings/contents line is drawn in a LH flat. In a FH property, it's often as simple as - turn your house upside down, and anything that falls or moves is 'contents'. Anything fixed is 'buildings'.
It would appear to be different for LH properties, as the examples I've read on this forum seem to suggest that patching plasterboard and redecorating comes under 'contents', which seems unfair to me.
Anyhoo - does she have contents insurance? If so, call them up - they should direct her as to the steps to take. Does she have LegProt? Fab - call them up first.

In a leasehold, typically buildings is the responsibility of the freeholder, and contents the responsibility of the leaseholder.

She should make a claim on her insurance (hopefully she has adequate cover for that expensive rug)

ThisIsWeird

Emmia said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Do waste pipes require regular inspection?
I'm not aware of this, but IF - and it's a big if - you could evidence that the waste pipe was not maintained according to requirements, and that this failure likely added to the incident, then there's a good chance you could cite 'negligence' by the FH/ManCo, and hold them liable for everything.
(Eg, if such blockages are known to occur, and need to be mitigated by regular maintenance - which has not been carried out).
Failing that, it would appear to be an incident that's split between a 'buildings' and 'contents' claim.
So - does your daughter have contents insurance? Phew. Next Q - does she have Legal Protection included? If 'yes', then awesome, and the thing to do is to call them up asap.
Tbh, I'm not sure when the buildings/contents line is drawn in a LH flat. In a FH property, it's often as simple as - turn your house upside down, and anything that falls or moves is 'contents'. Anything fixed is 'buildings'.
It would appear to be different for LH properties, as the examples I've read on this forum seem to suggest that patching plasterboard and redecorating comes under 'contents', which seems unfair to me.
Anyhoo - does she have contents insurance? If so, call them up - they should direct her as to the steps to take. Does she have LegProt? Fab - call them up first.

In a leasehold, typically buildings is the responsibility of the freeholder, and contents the responsibility of the leaseholder.

She should make a claim on her insurance (hopefully she has adequate cover for that expensive rug)

Yes, indeed.
What does 'contents' include, tho'?
Rugs, yes. UFH? Flooring? Damaged kitchen units?

Emmia

ThisIsWeird said:

Emmia said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Do waste pipes require regular inspection?
I'm not aware of this, but IF - and it's a big if - you could evidence that the waste pipe was not maintained according to requirements, and that this failure likely added to the incident, then there's a good chance you could cite 'negligence' by the FH/ManCo, and hold them liable for everything.
(Eg, if such blockages are known to occur, and need to be mitigated by regular maintenance - which has not been carried out).
Failing that, it would appear to be an incident that's split between a 'buildings' and 'contents' claim.
So - does your daughter have contents insurance? Phew. Next Q - does she have Legal Protection included? If 'yes', then awesome, and the thing to do is to call them up asap.
Tbh, I'm not sure when the buildings/contents line is drawn in a LH flat. In a FH property, it's often as simple as - turn your house upside down, and anything that falls or moves is 'contents'. Anything fixed is 'buildings'.
It would appear to be different for LH properties, as the examples I've read on this forum seem to suggest that patching plasterboard and redecorating comes under 'contents', which seems unfair to me.
Anyhoo - does she have contents insurance? If so, call them up - they should direct her as to the steps to take. Does she have LegProt? Fab - call them up first.

In a leasehold, typically buildings is the responsibility of the freeholder, and contents the responsibility of the leaseholder.

She should make a claim on her insurance (hopefully she has adequate cover for that expensive rug)

What does 'contents' include, tho'?
Rugs, yes. UFH? Flooring? Damaged kitchen units?

The contents of her flat, so kitchen, flooring, UFH, rugs, furniture...

ThisIsWeird

Emmia said:

The contents of her flat, so kitchen, flooring, UFH, rugs, furniture...

Thanks.
In which case, Danny, just call up her insurance, and hand it all over to them.
Don't mention 'pipe maintenance' unless you know that this has been neglected, and you want to land the LH in the resulting poo. On balance, I wouldn't say a thing.

Your insurer will send out an assessor, and they will handle it all. They will most likely ask about the 'cause' and whether it has been resolved, but just tell them 'the FH dealt with it' - and give them their details. 

You may need to assist your daughter in going through the assessors report, to ensure it's comprehensive - similar quality of flooring, etc. The flat should be returned to spankin'.

Don't worry about this - the exact same thing is happening in countless other properties every day. This sort of stuff just happens, and it's what insurance is for.

ThisIsWeird

Emmia said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Emmia said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Do waste pipes require regular inspection?
I'm not aware of this, but IF - and it's a big if - you could evidence that the waste pipe was not maintained according to requirements, and that this failure likely added to the incident, then there's a good chance you could cite 'negligence' by the FH/ManCo, and hold them liable for everything.
(Eg, if such blockages are known to occur, and need to be mitigated by regular maintenance - which has not been carried out).
Failing that, it would appear to be an incident that's split between a 'buildings' and 'contents' claim.
So - does your daughter have contents insurance? Phew. Next Q - does she have Legal Protection included? If 'yes', then awesome, and the thing to do is to call them up asap.
Tbh, I'm not sure when the buildings/contents line is drawn in a LH flat. In a FH property, it's often as simple as - turn your house upside down, and anything that falls or moves is 'contents'. Anything fixed is 'buildings'.
It would appear to be different for LH properties, as the examples I've read on this forum seem to suggest that patching plasterboard and redecorating comes under 'contents', which seems unfair to me.
Anyhoo - does she have contents insurance? If so, call them up - they should direct her as to the steps to take. Does she have LegProt? Fab - call them up first.

In a leasehold, typically buildings is the responsibility of the freeholder, and contents the responsibility of the leaseholder.

She should make a claim on her insurance (hopefully she has adequate cover for that expensive rug)

What does 'contents' include, tho'?
Rugs, yes. UFH? Flooring? Damaged kitchen units?

The contents of her flat, so kitchen, flooring, UFH, rugs, furniture...

Interesting.
Is this different to a freehold property? There, if you only had 'buildings' cover, it wouldn't include the floor coverings - fair enough - but also not fitted kitchen units?

Emmia

ThisIsWeird said:

Emmia said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Emmia said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Do waste pipes require regular inspection?
I'm not aware of this, but IF - and it's a big if - you could evidence that the waste pipe was not maintained according to requirements, and that this failure likely added to the incident, then there's a good chance you could cite 'negligence' by the FH/ManCo, and hold them liable for everything.
(Eg, if such blockages are known to occur, and need to be mitigated by regular maintenance - which has not been carried out).
Failing that, it would appear to be an incident that's split between a 'buildings' and 'contents' claim.
So - does your daughter have contents insurance? Phew. Next Q - does she have Legal Protection included? If 'yes', then awesome, and the thing to do is to call them up asap.
Tbh, I'm not sure when the buildings/contents line is drawn in a LH flat. In a FH property, it's often as simple as - turn your house upside down, and anything that falls or moves is 'contents'. Anything fixed is 'buildings'.
It would appear to be different for LH properties, as the examples I've read on this forum seem to suggest that patching plasterboard and redecorating comes under 'contents', which seems unfair to me.
Anyhoo - does she have contents insurance? If so, call them up - they should direct her as to the steps to take. Does she have LegProt? Fab - call them up first.

In a leasehold, typically buildings is the responsibility of the freeholder, and contents the responsibility of the leaseholder.

She should make a claim on her insurance (hopefully she has adequate cover for that expensive rug)

What does 'contents' include, tho'?
Rugs, yes. UFH? Flooring? Damaged kitchen units?

The contents of her flat, so kitchen, flooring, UFH, rugs, furniture...

Interesting.
Is this different to a freehold property? There, if you only had 'buildings' cover, it wouldn't include the floor coverings - fair enough - but also not fitted kitchen units?

A fitted kitchen unit whilst attached to the walls, isn't a permanent feature of the building, it can be removed and replaced, without changing the overall physical building - so it's contents. 

A wall or the roof on the other hand is a more permanent feature, fundamental to the structure of the building.

ThisIsWeird

That makes sense - thanks.

Annemos

I have a doubt about fitted kitchens. 


Here is Zurich. They say fitted kitchens are part of Building Insurance. 

(I just looked at my policy with another Insurer and it is not mentioned specifically in either Buildings or Contents.) 


https://www.zurich.ie/home-insurance/faqs/fitted-kitchen-buildings-insurance/#:~:text=Unlike%20contents%20insurance%20where%20you%20are%20ensuring%20items,any%20permanent%20fixtures%20and%20fittings%20such%20fitted%20kitchens.


This website, re leaseholders, discusses if a kitchen has been installed by a homeowner. It says often they find it is not covered under Buildings. 

https://www.emberjd.com/leaseholders-improvements-insurance/


One would have to check the Policies in place. Contact them, I suspect. And also see if there is any distinction made between who had installed the kitchen, perhaps?   

Belenus

I can't add anything useful to help other than to offer my sympathies to the OP's daughter. I know from personal experience how distressing such a flood can be.

The debate about buildings versus contents insurance makes me think it must be useful to have a joint insurance policy with one company covering both.

Edit: To clarify, this of course depends on you having a choice. Freeholders presumably usually have that choice but leaseholders may not be able to choose.