Power of Attorney in NI

penguin10

Hi - having read Martin's recent article re POA and how you could apply for it online (much cheaper) - it would seem that its not possible to do this in Northern Ireland. 
Could someone confirm this is the case please - maybe I just can't find it #
Thanks

elsien

It’s not the doing it online bit that makes it cheaper in England  it’s the ability to do it without using a solicitor.
It may be possible to do the paper version yourself in Northern Ireland. I have no knowledge of the system, so I can’t advise on whether that would be a good idea or not. But the forms are available online.

https://www.justice-ni.gov.uk/publications/epa-notes-and-forms

butterflymum

These pages might be of help too:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/managing-your-affairs-and-enduring-power-attorney

https://lawsoc-ni.org/using-a-solicitor/enduring-power-of-attorney

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-financial/how-make-enduring-power-attorney-northern-ireland

penguin10

Thanks for the links - your searching skills are better than mine!
From what I gather, in NI no health Power of Attorney exists?
Not sure if I have it right - You fill the form in (now whilst in good health) and then further down the line if you become incapable of handling your own finances etc, the nominated person pays the legal fees to office of care & protection (or something along those lines.  Fees seem to be much more than the English £82 to register it though. The fees aren't clear to me - will need to do some more homework. 
Very confused.

elsien

It really depends on how you want it set up, which might be where legal advice could be helpful.
If there are no restrictions, it takes effect as soon as it’s signed and registered, whether you have capacity or not.
So you would need to think about what limits (if any) you want to put on the attorneys powers.

Part of the reason for that might be similar to an LPA in England - that you might have your marbles but be physically incapacitated. or in my elderly grandmother’s case she just couldn’t be bothered doing it for herself anymore. 

penguin10

Its the cost of the registration that I am having bother working out.  I can't see anything like a charge of £82 (as England has).  These costs are noted. But perhaps its not the same thing!

Solicitors costs in relation to Patients’ work

Category I Work up to and including the date upon which the Controller is appointed £900 (plus VAT and outlay).

Category II Preparation and lodgements of a Controllership account £239 (plus VAT).

Category III General Management work in the second and subsequent years where the Controller is a solicitor £781 (plus VAT).

(Note: Categories II and III may be claimed together).

Category IV In respect of conveyancing, a value element of 1% of the consideration, with a minimum sum of £444 (plus VAT and outlay).

Category V All work in relation to the preparation, lodgement and execution of a Statutory Will £721 (plus VAT and outlay).

elsien

From the moneyhelper website

In Northern Ireland, you can use it without registering it while you still have mental capacity. But you must register it with the Office of Care and Protection as soon as your mental capacity starts to decline. The registration fee is £165.

although some of the other sites are quoting £151.
That will exclude any solicitors costs.

RAS

Are you clear about the difference between a will (after the donor dies) and a POA ( as you see quoting prices for execution of statutory wills)? Not that I understand NI rules.

Or is the issue to England and Wales:

A POA set up by the donor who has capacity naming attorneys costs £82.
Setting up deputyship after the donor lacks capacity costs a lot more with annual fees for accountancy etc 

butterflymum

Yes, you are correct that in NI, the Attorney (as appointed using the EPA), has no power to make medical or personal welfare decisions, it only covers property and financial affairs. There is  as yet, no separate equivalent available for health and welfare.

penguin10

elsien said:

From the moneyhelper website

In Northern Ireland, you can use it without registering it while you still have mental capacity. But you must register it with the Office of Care and Protection as soon as your mental capacity starts to decline. The registration fee is £165.

although some of the other sites are quoting £151.
That will exclude any solicitors costs.

Thank you

EPA office have informed me that reg fee is currently £180 but that only needs to be paid once the person loses mental capacity and the document then needs to be registered.
Its my understanding that doing it this way, no solicitors are needed.

Sarahspangles

I think that in Northern Ireland the Enduring Power of Attorney is the same arrangement as the EPA that used to be available in England, which has now been superseded by Lasting Powers of Attorney. My (English) in-laws set up EPAs in their early 60s, long before they were needed, in fact I think the solicitor threw them in with their Wills!

After MIL was widowed, and it was clear she couldn’t manage, her sons registered the EPA. She wouldn’t have had capacity to understand a LPA so it was helpful that the EPA could still be used. They didn’t need to use a solicitor, they just had to serve notice on other close relations using a standard form. The only bit that was complicated was working out how to pay the fee, as the options offered were cheque or postal order.

A few organisations did query if EPAs were still valid and this might be an issue if you’re using the EPA with UK-wide organisations.