Is a Full Months Rent Payable Following Forced Eviction Part Month?

AskAsk

theartfullodger said:

Very very unlikely.

Has this greedy landlord got no decency? (I for my sins am a landlord).

I suggest don't communicate with him , don't help him in any way.

Unless it gets to court papers.  

See here for more info.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/guarantors_for_private_renters?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoJC-BhCSARIsAPhdfSgO-gew7reWEVU58J7-QhgkE_T9g3cMfWA_eK-mYlc27bfUQvs7K1gaAsZ-EALw_wcB

And landlords wonder why they have a bad name.

Best wishes...

have you not read that the tenant has been in arrears for months before the eviction??  i don't have any sympahty for the OP as he hasn't paid the rent for months by the look of it.

Mr.Generous

theartfullodger said:

Very very unlikely.

Has this greedy landlord got no decency? (I for my sins am a landlord).

I suggest don't communicate with him , don't help him in any way.

Unless it gets to court papers.  

See here for more info.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/guarantors_for_private_renters?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoJC-BhCSARIsAPhdfSgO-gew7reWEVU58J7-QhgkE_T9g3cMfWA_eK-mYlc27bfUQvs7K1gaAsZ-EALw_wcB

And landlords wonder why they have a bad name.

Best wishes...

I can budget for a new car, but I don't consider it reasonable for someone to steal my old one. After 6 months of no rent and having to go to court would I be as nasty and vindictive as possible? Try me.

SanMiguel80

Many thanks for some of your answers, this has been going on for some time and court papers arrived yesterday and I am about to draft my response to the court. One of my dispute points would be regarding the above for the amount claimed for the full months rent.

This is for a small claim of <£10,000 and from what I have read I can't be held liable for the other sides legal costs other than a fixed £100 fee, likewise I can't claim any legal costs should I win the case, therefore I am trying to keep costs down by not having a solicitor.

I only have a couple of good valid arguments which means I will either win or I won't on these points. I am probably going to agree to pay some of the rent arrerars demanded, such as arrears for rent at the rate in which I agreed to be guarantor for but not for the 30% increase which they failed to obtain my consent for. 

My argument will be that the LL imposed a 30% S.13 rent increase on the tenant even though the tenancy agreement contained a rent review clause. I was not consulted for this increase and neither was I aware of it or of any of the rent arrears until after the tenants forced eviction. There were no rent arrears prior to this increase.

The guarantor was executed as a deed of guarantee.  

LoopyLoops

AskAsk said:

theartfullodger said:

Very very unlikely.

Has this greedy landlord got no decency? (I for my sins am a landlord).

I suggest don't communicate with him , don't help him in any way.

Unless it gets to court papers.  

See here for more info.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/guarantors_for_private_renters?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoJC-BhCSARIsAPhdfSgO-gew7reWEVU58J7-QhgkE_T9g3cMfWA_eK-mYlc27bfUQvs7K1gaAsZ-EALw_wcB

And landlords wonder why they have a bad name.

Best wishes...

have you not read that the tenant has been in arrears for months before the eviction??  i don't have any sympahty for the OP as he hasn't paid the rent for months by the look of it.

The OP is the guarantor on the agreement, not the tenant.  The landlord and the tenant didn’t let the guarantor know there was any default.  And reading the OP’s comment below wasn’t made aware there was a rent increase.  The OP has been lumbered and is doing their best to sort it out.  

Alderbank

SanMiguel80 said:

The guarantor was executed as a deed of guarantee.  

Thanks for your responses to our questions.

Below is a commonly used Deed of Guarantee for tenancies:

https://www.davidandrew.co.uk/downloadable-forms/Sample-Deed-of-Guarantee.pdf

Is this what you signed and had witnessed? If so I can understand your claim that you are not liable for the 30% increase which they failed to obtain your consent for.

7. The Guarantor will not be released from the liabilities arising under the Tenancy Agreement and the Guarantee by any variation or amendment of the Tenancy Agreement relating to the Rent, the parties to the Agreement or any other term of the Tenancy Agreement provided that the Guarantor is notified of the proposed variation in writing prior to it being carried out.

However you would still be liable for all of the landlord's legal and other costs:

9. If the Tenant defaults at any time whether in the initial Term or any extension or continuation of it or the Tenant is declared bankrupt and the Tenant's trustee in bankruptcy elects to disclaim the Tenancy Agreement then on written demand the Guarantor will pay cover and compensate the Landlord for all losses, claims, liabilities, costs, legal fees and expenses arising out of or due to that default or disclaimer or incurred by the Landlord due to the default or disclaimer.

If your properly signed and witnessed Deed of Guarantee differs from the above example it would be useful to post yourT&Cs here.

SanMiguel80

The Deed of Guarantee conditions are below, yes it was witnessed. However what concerns me now is about your comment about possibly having to compensate them for legal expenses and other costs. It was my understanding that by being taken to the small claims court it states that I won't have to pay their legal costs if I loose and same for them if I win. Could they come after me for any legal costs to date?

Small claims court: Making a claim & fees involved – MoneySavingExpert

1. The Guarantor(s) will indemnify the Landlord(s) in respect of any losses incurred by the Landlord(s) as a result of any breach of the terms of the Tenancy Agreement on the part of the Tenant(s).
 2. This agreement will remain enforceable against the Guarantor(s) throughout the Tenant’s occupancy of the Property and will not be restricted to the fixed term specified within the Tenancy Agreement. To clarify should the Tenancy enter into a Statutory Periodic your obligations will continue.
 3. This agreement cannot be cancelled by the Guarantor(s), nor will it become unenforceable by the Guarantor’s death or bankruptcy.
 4. This Guarantee will not be discharged by the Landlord, to allow the Tenant time in which to meet any outstanding payment of rent or to remedy any other breach of the terms of the Tenancy Agreement.
 5. If the Guarantor consists of more than one person, the Guarantor’s under this deed may be enforced against all such persons jointly and against each individually.
 6. The Guarantor acknowledges that he / she have been informed of their rights to take legal advice on the effects of signing this deed. 

SanMiguel80

Alderbank said:

7. The Guarantor will not be released from the liabilities arising under the Tenancy Agreement and the Guarantee by any variation or amendment of the Tenancy Agreement relating to the Rent, the parties to the Agreement or any other term of the Tenancy Agreement provided that the Guarantor is notified of the proposed variation in writing prior to it being carried out.

The LL argument is that the rent review clause in the TA stated that the rent would be increased annually with RP,I therefore I had already been notified. My defence of this is that the LL ignored this rent review clause and instead implemented a S.13 rent increase at 30% and way above RPI. The S.13 notice clearly states 'Do not use this form if the tenancy agreement contains a rent review clause'. 

silvercar

SanMiguel80 said:

Alderbank said:

7. The Guarantor will not be released from the liabilities arising under the Tenancy Agreement and the Guarantee by any variation or amendment of the Tenancy Agreement relating to the Rent, the parties to the Agreement or any other term of the Tenancy Agreement provided that the Guarantor is notified of the proposed variation in writing prior to it being carried out.

The LL argument is that the rent review clause in the TA stated that the rent would be increased annually with RP,I therefore I had already been notified. My defence of this is that the LL ignored this rent review clause and instead implemented a S.13 rent increase at 30% and way above RPI. The S.13 notice clearly states 'Do not use this form if the tenancy agreement contains a rent review clause'. 

If that is true and the rent arrears are only for the increase in rent, then the whole eviction notice may be invalid.

Though here:

I only have a couple of good valid arguments which means I will either win or I won't on these points. I am probably going to agree to pay some of the rent arrerars demanded, such as arrears for rent at the rate in which I agreed to be guarantor for but not for the 30% increase which they failed to obtain my consent for. 

you suggest that there were already rent arrears. In which case the landlord may be able to claim eviction under a different clause, for persistent rent arrears even if they don't total 2 months rent owing. 

One option may be to offer a cheque in full and final settlement. 

LightFlare

I’d be chasing the irresponsible person who got me in the mess - the tenant 

GDB2222

SanMiguel80 said:

The Deed of Guarantee conditions are below, yes it was witnessed. However what concerns me now is about your comment about possibly having to compensate them for legal expenses and other costs. It was my understanding that by being taken to the small claims court it states that I won't have to pay their legal costs if I loose and same for them if I win. Could they come after me for any legal costs to date?

Small claims court: Making a claim & fees involved – MoneySavingExpert

1. The Guarantor(s) will indemnify the Landlord(s) in respect of any losses incurred by the Landlord(s) as a result of any breach of the terms of the Tenancy Agreement on the part of the Tenant(s).
 2. This agreement will remain enforceable against the Guarantor(s) throughout the Tenant’s occupancy of the Property and will not be restricted to the fixed term specified within the Tenancy Agreement. To clarify should the Tenancy enter into a Statutory Periodic your obligations will continue.
 3. This agreement cannot be cancelled by the Guarantor(s), nor will it become unenforceable by the Guarantor’s death or bankruptcy.
 4. This Guarantee will not be discharged by the Landlord, to allow the Tenant time in which to meet any outstanding payment of rent or to remedy any other breach of the terms of the Tenancy Agreement.
 5. If the Guarantor consists of more than one person, the Guarantor’s under this deed may be enforced against all such persons jointly and against each individually.
 6. The Guarantor acknowledges that he / she have been informed of their rights to take legal advice on the effects of signing this deed. 

You are right that, in the small claims track, there's not much scope for allocation of costs. That's subject to some caveats.

First, at this stage, the claim won't have been allocated to the small claims track, and you cannot guarantee that it will be, although it's likely.

Second, you must act reasonably, and not run up costs for the claimant unnecessarily. 

In your position, given the amounts involved, I would be seeking legal advice on whether the guarantee agreement is valid. If it isn't, you don't have to pay anything, so it's worth an hour of a solicitor's time. 

Your original question, about whether you are liable for the final part-month's rent: Nobody here knows the answer, apparently, and it's not worth spending a lot of money seeking legal advice on £600. One practical solution is to put it in as part of your defence, and let the other side spend time and money trying to justify their stance. 

Your point about the S13 not being valid is correct. 

If you are unsure what to do, you can file an acknowledgement of service, which gives you an extra 2 weeks to file a defence.