Topping up UK pension as a Spanish resident

lisalisa100

I have been living in Lanzarote since 2016 I have only 5.5 years on my Spanish pension I believe to get a Spanish pension I need at least 18 I am 54 years old and do not think I will manage 18years of contributions here on Spain. I have 21 years in UK pension and have currently got 145£ a week. As I am a Spanish resident and my last work will have been here how does it work? do I need 37 years like the Spanish or 35 like the English system. I'm so confused with whether I should pay before April 2025 or if I have time to still catch up if I leave it till next year or year after? Thanks

Brie

You may very well benefit from talking to the international pension centre 

International Pension Centre - GOV.UK

There is some reciprocity between the UK and other countries where you may be able to use your years on your Spanish pension to increase your UK one.  

molerat

You will be able to use your UK pension to meet the minimum requirement for the Spanish pension, the combination of the two means the 5 years will be payable. The withdrawal agreement kept many of your EU retirement rights.

https://employment-social-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies-and-activities/moving-working-europe/eu-social-security-coordination/what-are-your-rights/pensions_en

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire-abroad/state-pensions-abroad/index_en.htm

You now need to decide if you want to increase your UK pension.  If you were working immediately prior to leaving the UK you will be eligible to buy class 2 at under £200 per year whilst you were / are working.  With £145 you need another 12-13 years of contributions with 14 years going forward to get there - your forecast will show exactly how many more years you need. If you want to fill the past gaps you need to get a CF83 filled in sharpish as years 18-19 and earlier are cutting off soon. If you are not working you would need class 3 at around £900.  Social Security abroad: NI38 - GOV.UK 

If you want a detailed breakdown of your UK situation post up some anonymous details from your forecast and someone will point you in the right direction.

Current weekly £££.pp amount up to April 2024.
Number of full NI years 15-16 and earlier
Number of full NI years 16-17 and later
Tax year you reach state retirement
Any COPE amount.  If you have "You've been in a contracted-out pension scheme" on your forecast then click
here https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-your-state-pension/account/cope whilst logged into your tax account
Years which show not full and prices

Dazed_and_C0nfused

lisalisa100 said:

I have been living in Lanzarote since 2016 I have only 5.5 years on my Spanish pension I believe to get a Spanish pension I need at least 18 I am 54 years old and do not think I will manage 18years of contributions here on Spain. I have 21 years in UK pension and have currently got 145£ a week. As I am a Spanish resident and my last work will have been here how does it work? do I need 37 years like the Spanish or 35 like the English system. I'm so confused with whether I should pay before April 2025 or if I have time to still catch up if I leave it till next year or year after? Thanks

The 35 years rule isn't relevant to you.

If you have exactly £145.00 entitlement then at the most you can only add a further £76.20.

An additional 12 years will add £75.84 to take you to £220.84.  If you actually already have at least £145.36 then 12, not 13, years will take you to your maximum.

pinnks

As you have been in Spain since before the end of the Transition Period, you are protected by the EU Withdrawal Agreement, which means the EU rules on the coordination of social security systems continue to apply for state pension purposes.  You will get 2 pensions - one from the UK and one from Spain.

From the UK perspective, as you already have more than 10 years on your NI record the EU regulations are of no consequence, so you can ignore them completely, focus on paying UK voluntary NI if you wish and see from your pension forecast what you will get.

From the Spanish perspective you will have to rely on the regulations as you will not have the required 15 years in Spain and may, or may not, achieve 2 Spanish years in the final 15, which is also a requirement.  However, with your UK years, you do achieve that.

Spain must do 2 calculations and pay you the higher amount as your pension
1. a pension based solely on your Spanish record, so 0€ if you do not have 15 Spanish years

2. a theoretical amount of pension based on the assumption that all of your contribution periods were laid down in Spain.  Where UK periods overlap with Spanish periods, e.g. because you pay UK voluntary NI, the UK period is disregarded in favour of the Spanish period (logical when you think about it because your Spanish contributions carry the pension value).  Anyway, this theoretical amount is then pro-rated based on the ratio of your Spanish periods to the aggregated total period.  This gets you past the 15 years etc requirements and will be greater than 0€.

If you have sufficient aggregated years you can claim your Spanish pension early at something like 65.  I think you need a total of 38 years and a few months for that.

When the time comes to claim whichever pension you can get first, you claim via the pension authority in Spain (INSS?) if you still live there, or DWP if you live in the UK. They liaise with each other to share your records and then each country calculate the pension it must pay.  If you reach pension age in Spain at 65 then you claim at 65 and then again when you reach UK pension age.

Most people say not to use a gestor in Spain as they generally have no clue about the EU regs and will tell you that you do not qualify for a pension in Spain.  Everyone says to simply go to your local INSS office.  

lisalisa100

So if I have worked in Spain eg. 2017 no point in toping up in the UK for 2017 is that correct? So if I need to make up 12 years in the UK I cannot be working in Spain for the next 12 years unless I'm on a 40 hour contract which tbh is unlikely so how does that work? Tia

molerat

You misunderstand.  You do not need to do anything.  Currently you have enough years to get a UK pension of £145 and because the total of your UK and Spanish years exceed the minimum required for a Spanish pension you will be eligible to claim that pro rated amount.

But if you wish you can purchase UK years at under £200 each to add to that £145, each year purchased will pay £324 for the rest of your life.

If you answer the specific points in my earlier post we can tell you exactly what you need to do to maximise your UK pension which will be in addition to any Spanish pension you are accruing, the 2 pensions are completely separate from each other.  Are you currently working and do you intend working in the future ?  I don't think you are really impacted by the urgency of the April cut off as you have a bit of slack but being able to buy class 2 now might avoid having to pay class 3 at the other end.

lisalisa100

Thanks sorry I'm still confused. Are they 2 separate pensions or put together. I was led to believe if I worked in Spain I couldn't make the same years back in UK. I have worked in Lanzarote since 2016 when I left UK but because of the system here I have only got 5.5 years in Spain. I want to make sure I get a full UK pension. But don't want to pay uk contributions as they will be class 3 if it doesn't count. I have 21 years in UK and 5.5 here. 

molerat

They are separate pensions but they interact with each other so having a (earned) UK pension should let you access what you have earned in Spain even if you are below the minimum requirement as the number of years in each country are added together to meet the qualifying criteria.  Whatever you pay for voluntarily in the UK will give you a UK pension based on that payment irrespective of what you have earned from Spain for that same year. When aggregating years to meet the minimum requirements you cannot use the same year from each country.

castellondude

pinnks said:

As you have been in Spain since before the end of the Transition Period, you are protected by the EU Withdrawal Agreement, which means the EU rules on the coordination of social security systems continue to apply for state pension purposes.  You will get 2 pensions - one from the UK and one from Spain.

From the UK perspective, as you already have more than 10 years on your NI record the EU regulations are of no consequence, so you can ignore them completely, focus on paying UK voluntary NI if you wish and see from your pension forecast what you will get.

From the Spanish perspective you will have to rely on the regulations as you will not have the required 15 years in Spain and may, or may not, achieve 2 Spanish years in the final 15, which is also a requirement.  However, with your UK years, you do achieve that.

Spain must do 2 calculations and pay you the higher amount as your pension
1. a pension based solely on your Spanish record, so 0€ if you do not have 15 Spanish years

2. a theoretical amount of pension based on the assumption that all of your contribution periods were laid down in Spain.  Where UK periods overlap with Spanish periods, e.g. because you pay UK voluntary NI, the UK period is disregarded in favour of the Spanish period (logical when you think about it because your Spanish contributions carry the pension value).  Anyway, this theoretical amount is then pro-rated based on the ratio of your Spanish periods to the aggregated total period.  This gets you past the 15 years etc requirements and will be greater than 0€.

If you have sufficient aggregated years you can claim your Spanish pension early at something like 65.  I think you need a total of 38 years and a few months for that.

When the time comes to claim whichever pension you can get first, you claim via the pension authority in Spain (INSS?) if you still live there, or DWP if you live in the UK. They liaise with each other to share your records and then each country calculate the pension it must pay.  If you reach pension age in Spain at 65 then you claim at 65 and then again when you reach UK pension age.

Most people say not to use a gestor in Spain as they generally have no clue about the EU regs and will tell you that you do not qualify for a pension in Spain.  Everyone says to simply go to your local INSS office.  

Hi. Do you know if Spain has to take into account partial periods when totalizing years? I have three full years plus several incomplete years (pre 2006) in the UK for a total of 6 and a half years.
My understanding is that even though partial years do not count towards the UK pension they must be taken into account in Spain, or in any other EU country.  If so this would mean I have the 38 and a half years needed for retirement at 65 in Spain.
Also just for info I have purchased all the voluntary years that I could in the UK (will have 21 years when I retire), so I understand all this won't affect my UK pension which will be paid irrespective of my Spanish contribution.
I am covered by the withdrawal agreement.