Brought house then discovered it wont heat properly and the seller hid damp

BikingBud

bobster2 said:

BikingBud said:

I repeat if the radiators are not getting hot the heating isn't working. Denigrating someone because they do not understand how systems work and how to diagnose symptoms, cold at bottom, cold at top etc is not required. Providing some knowledge and increasing their ability to self treat will pay off for you when they don't call for a repair again. And perhaps save you cost in the long run as they could report a recurrent issue that might indicate you have leaks or pump problems before they become too severe. Or you could just laugh at them because they didn't understand the heating system.

A heating system that works fine when radiators have been bled of air (routine maintenance) is a heating system that is in "good working order".

Next you'll be telling us that a tap with no water flowing out of it (because an isolation valve has been closed) isn't "in good working order".

Are you sure about that? And how along until the problem recurs? What then? 

https://www.bestheating.com/info/why-do-my-radiators-keep-filling-with-air/#:~:text=Common%20causes%20of%20air%20in,radiators%2C%20and%20heat%20pump%20problems.

HOW DOES AIR GET INTO RADIATORS STILL WHEN BLEEDING REGULARLY?
If you have found that you are having to bleed your radiators more often to release air, this could indicate a bigger problem. Ideally, you shouldn’t have to do this more than a few times a year in your household, so if you are finding there are still issues with heating performance, this may indicate a leak or low pressure. Having regular boiler maintenance can discover any other issues with your system if air in the radiators is happening more than it should.

Similarly a cold water or hot water system may have air locks so not just opening an isolation valve but understanding why and where the air came from. Something that is likely outside many peoples skill levels and why plumbers can make easy money.

But who said anything about good working order? I said if they do not provide the function that they were designed to they are not working. Assuming that it is one fault or blaming people for not understanding the systems operation is wholly unfair.

What would you do if electrical power tripped off? The lights or sockets aren't working, reset it? What next? Many people do not want to, quite rightly, try to resolve electrical problems. Would you also laugh at that?

Anyway back to the original post. 

Should a potential purchaser go in crank the boiler up, open all the TRVS give the system a chance to build and go round and check all the rads to ensure they are getting hot?

Should they go round and run all the taps to ensure the water coming out is hot.

According to due diligence and the way which house sales are conducted in the UK yes as there is little if any comeback. But how many vendors would et extremely shirty if this was conducted by every viewer?

bobster2

BikingBud said:

But who said anything about good working order? I said if they do not provide the function that they were designed to they are not working. Assuming that it is one fault or blaming people for not understanding the systems operation is wholly unfair.

Who said anything about "good working order"?

That is literally what this thread is about - as OP stated the sellers answered "Yes" to the question  "Is the boiler/heating system in good working order?" on the TA6.

The fact that someone might need help to ensure the boiler output temperature is set correctly - does not mean the seller was wrong to answer "yes" on the TA6.

Flugelhorn

moneysaver said:

Flugelhorn said:

moneysaver said:

bouicca21 said:

When I bought my last house we soon discovered that it was so cold that at night we had to sleep with coats and/or dressing gowns on.  The answer turned out to be simple - the boiler was the wrong size for the house.  Never occurred to us to try and get compensation.  Just scrimped and saved for a new boiler …

More fool you. The rules of buying houses are clear so things are not hidden and broken, there are plenty of sellers out there who will hide or disguise things.

Moneysaver

are you in Scotland @moneysaver - I think the rules may be different there

Yes I am in Scotland. Sorry if I am wrong.

Moneysaver

there is far less come back on vendors in England whereas I think in Scotland it is possible to claim for things found to not be working after moving into the house 

AskAsk

moneysaver said:

AskAsk said:

moneysaver said:

bouicca21 said:

When I bought my last house we soon discovered that it was so cold that at night we had to sleep with coats and/or dressing gowns on.  The answer turned out to be simple - the boiler was the wrong size for the house.  Never occurred to us to try and get compensation.  Just scrimped and saved for a new boiler …

More fool you. The rules of buying houses are clear so things are not hidden and broken, there are plenty of sellers out there who will hide or disguise things.

Moneysaver

you are totally wrong.  as a buyer, you can not rely simply on the TA6 answers for the central heating being in working order, that just means it turns on and is safe.  it doesn't mean it has to work efficiently.

if you read your survey, the surveyor will always says that he hasn't fully tested the central heating system and would recommend that this get tested by a gas safe engineer.

so it is the buyer's responsibility to get the central heating system tested before purchase if he wants to make sure that it is working.  most buyers don't bother with this and they probably should do, but if you never instructed an inspection by a gas safe engineer before purchase then you can't ask for compensation after purchase as you didn't do your due dilligence as advised by the survey.

I am in Scotland it seems the rules may be different here. I once bought a house & when I moved in the electric shower was not heating up, the seller had to pay to get it repaired.

Moneysaver

in england, it is buyer beware.  the buyer is responsible for getting people to do testing of various things in the house but no one really do it as you might as well wait until you have moved in and resolve it when you are there as it is not something that generally can be negotiated in the price.

no one is going to give you money off because the electric shower is broke and you need to replace it! lol

BikingBud

bobster2 said:

BikingBud said:

But who said anything about good working order? I said if they do not provide the function that they were designed to they are not working. Assuming that it is one fault or blaming people for not understanding the systems operation is wholly unfair.

Who said anything about "good working order"?

That is literally what this thread is about - as OP stated the sellers answered "Yes" to the question  "Is the boiler/heating system in good working order?" on the TA6.

The fact that someone might need help to ensure the boiler output temperature is set correctly - does not mean the seller was wrong to answer "yes" on the TA6.

The response was to another poster who was trying to validate some their disdain at people's lack of technical knowledge and merely merely stipulated "the heating wasn't working" Nothing at all to do with house purchase or TA6 just a needless dig.

And interesting to note that you didn't comment upon the causes of the problems.

But as you jumped in and brought it back to the TA6, how did the vendor complete that section of the form if they were not technically minded? They should have left the field blank:

• Be accurate. It says, ‘If you give incorrect or incomplete information to the buyer (on the Property Information Form (TA6) in writing or in conversation, whether through your estate agent or solicitor or directly to the buyer), the buyer may be able to make a claim for compensation or refuse to complete the purchase.’

If they were technically minded then they should have understood the heating system was ineffective and stated so.

Coming back to your statement:

A heating system that works fine when the boiler output temperature is set to an appropriate value is a heating system that is in "good working order".
A heating system that works fine when radiators have been bled of air (routine maintenance) is a heating system that is in "good working order".Your statement 

How many queries do we see about what an appropriate boiler temperature is?

How many threads do we see where people have issues with cold spots on radiators and lack of understanding on TRV and lock shield functions?

Again if technically minded the vendor might have undertaken the diagnosis and rectified the issues but if 2 lay people, one compiling and one reading the TA6, are not capable of recognising the symptoms and addressing the cause then the system is not working. 

A specialist might come along, implement a simple fix and be able to determine the system is in good working order or might on investigating the issue discover a system that has leaks and is far from good working order. 

sheramber

moneysaver said:

AskAsk said:

moneysaver said:

bouicca21 said:

When I bought my last house we soon discovered that it was so cold that at night we had to sleep with coats and/or dressing gowns on.  The answer turned out to be simple - the boiler was the wrong size for the house.  Never occurred to us to try and get compensation.  Just scrimped and saved for a new boiler …

More fool you. The rules of buying houses are clear so things are not hidden and broken, there are plenty of sellers out there who will hide or disguise things.

Moneysaver

you are totally wrong.  as a buyer, you can not rely simply on the TA6 answers for the central heating being in working order, that just means it turns on and is safe.  it doesn't mean it has to work efficiently.

if you read your survey, the surveyor will always says that he hasn't fully tested the central heating system and would recommend that this get tested by a gas safe engineer.

so it is the buyer's responsibility to get the central heating system tested before purchase if he wants to make sure that it is working.  most buyers don't bother with this and they probably should do, but if you never instructed an inspection by a gas safe engineer before purchase then you can't ask for compensation after purchase as you didn't do your due dilligence as advised by the survey.

I am in Scotland it seems the rules may be different here. I once bought a house & when I moved in the electric shower was not heating up, the seller had to pay to get it repaired.

Moneysaver

In Scotland you have 5 days to report anything not working. 

The relevant clause is on the Missive, not a TA6 in Scotland.

My solicitor chose to remove the relevant clause and substitute  another clause. 

It would be up to he buyer’s solicitor to accept  this amendment or not. 

A TA6 is not used in Scotland .Only the HOme Report and Missives.