Removing person from deeds issue

marchesini46

Hi all, a rather sensitive subject that I would like your collective expertise on.

During COVID, my mother purchased a buy to let property in the Midlands near her. She already has several in the area so is always in the look out for other ones. She wanted me to go on the deeds with her as she doesn’t like to go on as a sole owner (as she’s getting older) and my dad (for reasons only known to him) simply refused. I’m based down South so was unable to travel but my eldest son signed in my absence. No problems as it wasn’t ever for monetary purposes, just to give my mother some reassurance as an extra party on the deeds. So now the BRL property has been let out by my mum and she keeps the rent etc and my son has nothing at all do do with the house. His name is on the deeds but the intention was not so he inherits the house in the event of my mums death but ti appease my mum and just to be helpful. This simple act has now proved to be quite problematic for everyone. 

Fast forward to today and my mother now wishes to transfer all of the property over to me as a gift. I’ve spoken to Land Registry and filled in the TR1 for the transfer of ownership and also completed an online ID1 check. All good so far.  

Now a bit of history with regards to my son over the past 5 or so years. He’s not in a mentally good place and suffers from paranoia and anxiety issues. Has massive trust issues so refuses to get any medical help and just “wants to be left alone and wants people to stop bothering him”. Obviously not a great place to be but everyone has respected his wishes and he’s coping as well as he can.

Back to the property in hand. I’ve taken the time to fill in all the forms with post it notes for him to fill in so we can transfer the property over to me. In principle he has agreed but now he has seen the forms and doesn’t fully understand what he’s signing, he is refusing to sign any of the forms. His reasons are:
1. TR1 form: He doesn’t know a witness who can verify his signatures I’ve explained it can be a neighbour or anyone 🤷‍♂️
2. ID1 form: He can’t accurately name all the places he’s lived at for the past 5 years so doesn’t want to go to prison for giving inaccurate information. He also doesn’t understand why they need to know this information so won’t sign.

He is refusing to budge on the issue despite my mum explaining that it’s what she wants to do.

She’s now in a corner and saying “what can she do” as he simply shuts down any further conversation on the matter. She’s said that we might have to take him to court to get him to sign and he simply said ok.  My mum now says she’ll just sell the house instead but I’ve explained to her that she cannot do a single thing without his permission - which is obviously incredibly frustrating.  HM Land Registry cannot do anything without his signature so we are now at a dead end.

Onto my question. Can we get a solicitor to argue that he’s not mentally fit to be on the deeds and get him removed. If so, how easy is this to do and what would the steps be? 

Obviously this situation is far from ideal and he’s not going to get better any time soon and regardless of whether I get the house or it is sold instead, the matter needs to be resolved. 

Many thanks for any advice. 

p00hsticks

Apart from anything else, if the property has increased in value since it was bought, I think both he and your mother may potentially be going to face a Capital Gains Tax biIl when disposing of it to you - have you or your mother addressed that issue ? 

marchesini46

Not really but any relevant taxes will be paid (if necessary) but it’s a gift. 

That’s not the major issue anyway. 

silvercar

marchesini46 said:

Not really but any relevant taxes will be paid (if necessary) but it’s a gift. 

That’s not the major issue anyway. 

Gifts between related parties are deemed to be at market rates. Also your son would be liable to report to hmrc within 60 days of sale and to pay any CGT. When you say your mother wants to sell, does she realise half the proceeds belong to your son? Also, he’s lost his first time buyer status, if relevant. He should also have been accounting for his share of rental income. 

If you could prove he was incapable of making decisions for himself and you should have power of attorney, you have to act in his best interests, not the joint interests of him and your Mum (or you).

In short, he’s perfectly entitled to say he doesn’t want to sell. 

silvercar

I’m based down South so was unable to travel but my eldest son signed in my absence. 

During COVID, you were allowed to sign via video link, you could even have signatures witnessed outdoors from a distance.

 So now the BRL property has been let out by my mum and she keeps the rent etc and my son has nothing at all do do with the house.

Unless the ownership was registered at 99/1 rather than the assumed 50/50, Mum owes your son half the rent, less expenses. Who accounted for the rent to hmrc?

His name is on the deeds but the intention was not so he inherits the house in the event of my mums death but ti appease my mum and just to be helpful. This simple act has now proved to be quite problematic for everyone. 

The intentions are not what you put on paper. You should have sought legal advice before going down this path. A solicitor would have explained the pitfalls. Even gifting the property he half owns back to your Mum may have tax implications. This country’s tax laws and those of property ownership are not set up for multi generational families helping each other out. What seems a simple act of being helpful to family has repercussions.

Keep_pedalling

Your mother has basically gifted him half a house and is now pressuring him to give it away to you. He is right to be concerned about this, it is no longer her decision to make.

If she wants to gift her half to you fare enough but she can’t make him do it and you should back him up here rather than go along with what your mother wants. Assuming she ends up offloading this property is she still expecting to receive the rental income?

TBG01

I’m based down South so was unable to travel but my eldest son signed in my absence.

Travel for what? You could've signed separate copies of the transfers.

If he doesn't know why needs to sign now, surely that begs the question, did he know what he was signing up for originally? 

Presumably, this isn't the first property he's owned? If it is, presumably he was advised he's now lost his first time buyer status.