Electric Only Heating - Cosy Octopus - New Approach

finallyfree23

I live in a small rented (housing association) 1 bed flat, with no gas therefore the only option for heating is electric. There are small storage heaters in the open plan lounge and the bedroom, but they’re really badly located in the small space meaning I’ve never been able to utilise them as they’re blocked by furniture (and if I unblocked them, there’d be no suitable space for said furniture! It really is small) 

When I moved in and realised this, I switched from an E7 tariff to a flat rate, figuring if I was going to have to use non storage heating then it would at least save a bit, no point having cheap rate energy in the middle of the night when I’m in bed if not able to use storage. I’ve been on Octopus Tracker for the past year, and whilst it’s not been cheap I’ve at least been able to shift other usage (washer/dryer etc.) to the lower cost days. For heat I’ve got a 1.5Kw smart fan heater with a WiFi thermostat which I have located away from the heater itself - the heater is programmed to maintain a programmed temperature during set times (when I’m home from work) and not to run when I’m out or overnight. I also have an electric boiler for hot water.

During the warmer months the heater barely kicked in, and obviously tracker rates were pretty low too, so my energy costs were minimal. Eg in July I used approx £44 (130Kw), August £41 (120Kw). 

Over then colder months the usage and spend has been considerably higher as you’d expect, November £130 (465Kw), December similar and January £160 (525Kw) so with my current Tracker coming to an end, the new version being more expensive and cap rates also going up I thought I’d give the setup some thought. I know we’re heading towards the time I’ll use the heating less, but next winter it would be great to have a better handle on things and spend a bit less.

Today I’ve switched to Cosy Octopus, and my first thought was just to programme the current fan heater to the Cosy rate times during the two daytime slots, but I’m wondering whether it would make sense to swap it for a ceramic core heater? I know they don’t “store” heat in the same way a storage heater does, but thinking that running a 1.5Kw one during all 8 cheap hours, with a thermostat so that it doesn’t keep heating if the room is already up to temp, will still be an awful lot cheaper than running the current fan heater at standard flat rates, and the ceramic heater taking that bit longer to cool down therefore continuing to output heat a bit beyond the hours it’s drawing energy should help maintain a level of heat. There’s also the option to turn it on manually during normal day rate times if I really need it…and add some layers during the 3hr peak period if I’m cold! 😂

I may tweak the programme during the warmer months, although in theory the thermostat should mean it’s not kicking in unnecessarily anyway. 

At current Cosy rates, running the heater during the whole 8hr Cosy period would cost about £1.60 per day if it runs constantly without the thermostat knocking it off, compared to my usage on Sunday of £3.84 so half of what I spent, and there have been days where I’ve spent close to £10 so it’s a tiny fraction by comparison. There was obviously other usage on Sunday apart from the heater, but fairly minimal I’ve got everything else as efficient as I can. 

Over a month running the heater for the 8 Cosy hours per day would cost less than £50, seven if I spent the same again on other usage and turning the heater on for additional hours as needed, that’s going to be a pretty big saving - and during the summer, if I shift my other bigger usage to the same Cosy hours then I may even save then too, or at least mitigate the increasing standard rate costs.

How does this sound, it makes sense to me but I know we’ve lots of experts here. 😊

Thanks! 

Scot_39

Energy use is a consequence of your desired temperature and flat losses. 

That can be controlled by changing the times you keep the rooms to that temperature - and the efficiency of the heating impact on how warm you feel with it.

A fan heater switching on gives instant gratification if right in front of it - but then studies prove you'll feel much colder when it cuts out - and so often costs more to run - as people wind up the thermostat.

All conventional electrical heaters take 1kWh electricity - and produce 1kWh of heat energy. Fancy radiator brands  cost £100s by time get upto the 1-1.5kWh you'd need to lift a medium sized room to a reasonable temperature on colder days - even with several hours continuous use - and you'd I suspect gain little in reality.

In simple terms - what you could gain in heat retention after switch off say - you would lose on warming up room at switch on.  It's still simple energy in = energy out over an albeit modified time period.  

Whether thats over the full 8 hrs - or the lower 5 hours if your other suggesting of using only the 2 days slots - and really don't want any heat when you get up / or in the mornings.

But as I say in terms of making you feel warm - the method of delivery can impact what heating is best - especially if dont want to heat the whole house to a constant temperature for most of the day.

Cosy if iirc gives rates that are about half price at cheapest - yes Octopus site says 51% below - so 49% of SR - half - but then anything used outside those times - would cost more than SR (so you would need timers on immersion heater etc - which I assume you fitted when went SR) - the afternoon peak 51% more - so you'd have to minimise use then too (possibly just as your coming back in from work)

I'm on e10 - so when I work out my heating's effective rate - I use my average p/kWh - not the off peak rate.  Simply because you dont get the savings off peak without paying the peaks.

But even if just use your no doubt cheap rate for upto 8 hours costing - there is no way £1.60 on cosy is going to give you all of the energy your using on the coldest days - in reality approximately a third.

£1.60/0.49 = £3.29 equivalent cost at Octopus SVT single rate - approx one third of the £10 you currently spend on coldest days.

You'd need three heaters to get the same energy input to your home - assuming the £10 was only heating. Assuming not (your £10 is total inc HW, other uses and SC) you'd need at least 2.  That couldof course be existing fan and new radiator.

And it would then still cost £10 - 51% discounted rate = £4.90.

OR as you say run one at slightly higher day rate (as long as not peak) - but that trickles your average heating cost up.  And youd need maybe half at the day rate - so maybe saving only 20-25% on average.

I'd stick with your current heater - not waste potentially £100s on the fancier clay radiators out there.

Or if want a second heat source - for the 5 hrs or 8 hrs a simple - oil filled radiator - that will admittedly only hold heat for a short time - 10s minutes to ambient - but maybe take 10 mins to heat up.  Starting c£40-50 for 1.5 - 2kW models - more for a "branded" one - get one with own timer probably best.  In a flat easy to wheel say from living room to kitchen to bedroom as desired.

I bought a named brand oil filled - it's served my well over the years - and used it when away with work in UK and overseas - weeks adding to months some years - in past - as frost / damp protection.  I just wouldn't trust a fan or convection heater or even in past properties GCH unattended like that.

Are you willing to give the model / type of heater you were thinking of buying? 

Someone here might use them and comment.

Your move to cosy - I thought it was restriced by heater type - so well done getting it with plug in heater.

If can get away with just the 8 off peak hours - in simplest terms its costing you half per kWh (but I never think of it that way) or on temperature - period and time - or by cutting house losses - and again as renting - anything major would be down to HA / council / landlord.

How hot are you actually heating the flat - assuming the fan heater in living room - what temp is it giving you there - and other rooms via passive air circulation ?

If your up in the 18+ range is that for health reasons - or so you can walk around without layering - like in a heated office space etc. could you drop it ?

If at those comfort levels many prefer - and able / willing to - as can be very costly for all electric homes to achieve cf those with gas - then I'd perhaps suggest you could look to make additional saving by heating the flat to a minimal temperature but not too low a temp.  The last thing you want is dampness and mould to take hold (although some here don't heat most rooms - just keep them ventilated which can also work).  And move more towards heating the person techniques rather than just thinking of the space.

I made a big change to bills - by heating most of my rooms to just 14 - my living room to 16 - and now layer up - with light thermals (mine are no thicker than a normal light t-shirt) that make a big difference to core - and in my case hand and especially feet temps with the leggings.  But I think am just still about OK healthwise - a doctor might disagree - and so can tolerate that sort of temp - it wouldn't suit everyone - or be recommended for elderly / unwell etc by nhs etc.

You could do that by say buying a 

couple of sets of thermals (from £10-12 a pair - primark , decathlon, lidl my most recent purchases when they have them), 

a heated throw for the sofa (cheap brands from say c£40 - big name more) or a heated seat pad for your desk if use for hours of WFH / computer use etc 

maybe a heated blanket for the bed - for a 20 min warm up just before bed if feel need.

If your current fan cannot give you the necessary energy in the 8 hours - or 5 hours - then buy another simple heater to boost elsewhere. 

And try save that way by dropping the thermostat a degree or 2 - it makes a big difference to the bills - again if your health allows.

But your move to cosy is probably the best solution - the biggest bang for your buck as they say - given your renting.

But as above remember - its not a simple question of saving by simply restricting the time.

Cosy gets you the 51% cheaper rate - you still need the same total energy to keep the same room temperatures. So if need the same £7-10 of heat energy at max - its only going to drop to £3.50-£5 on it.

And to get that in a more restricted time - 

Say assuming 25p/kWh and say £7 of your £10 daily peak was heating - that means you would have been using up to £7 /25p /  kWh = 28kWh per day.

So over 5 hours - you'd need nearer 6kW of heater power - over 8 hours - 3.5 kW of heater power combined.  

Or as you say - moving more into the day rate.  Cutting the savings. But for many most of the heating cost is upfront - raising the temperature - so that might work well without buying any more heaters.

finallyfree23

Thanks for your thoughts @Scot_39, very much appreciated! 

You’re spot on about the fan heater providing instantaneous heat, and because of that it can be tempting to either crank it up, or turn it back on for a manual boost of heat. What I’m hoping to achieve is to maintain a more general level of comfort throughout the time I’m at home rather than a blast of heat, a cool chill and then another blast.

Whilst I’m limited in terms of big improvements to heat retention, I’m also putting in place some of the smaller improvements and habit changes - draft excluders, keeping doors closed so I’m not unnecessarily heating (or losing heat to) the hallway and bedroom which I prefer to keep cool etc.

I work a 3 days on, 3 days off shift pattern and on my working days I’m out of the flat for 12hrs so I can shift my other load to the cheap times when I’m home quite easily. And of course once I’ve got a better understanding of how the heat lasts I can likely play with the scheduling so I’m not heating unnecessarily when I’m not around (whilst keeping it sensible to avoid damp issues). 

I’ve managed to pick up a 2000W Beldray heater brand new at less than half price due to some cosmetic damage which doesn’t bother me, it should arrive in the next couple of days so I’ll be experimenting over the next couple of weeks to see how it works out, if necessary supplementing with the fan heater - if I find the new one isn’t getting the temperature up enough alone or the flat isn’t retaining the heat sufficiently then I can maybe set the fan to give a blast for the last part of the lower cost periods, or even just use that for any “on demand” top up heat I need during standard rate periods at least whilst I get to grips with the best scheduling etc. That said, I tend to have the thermostat set relatively low anyway, it’s more about keeping a general comfort level and the chill off than keeping the room “warm”.

I do actually have a small old oil filled radiator which was used as an emergency heater when by boiler broke down in my old home, it’s only 600w I think but again another supplemental heat source if needed, and a heated throw on the sofa which I don’t really use, but is there as an option. 

Will report back how I get on. 

QrizB

Personally I wouldn't choose to run a fan heater on a timer. They're meant to be supervised 100% of the time because they're more likely to fail and burst into flames than most other types of electric heaters.

I dimly recall public information films warning about this in the 1970s.

Swipe

Yep, no way would I trust a fan heater unattended on a timer. Mine on the lowest setting pulling just 1.5KW can get the plastic wall plug pretty warm after about 45 mins of use.

finallyfree23

Don’t worry, it’s not unattended. Whilst it’s a smart WiFi fan heater that I could control remotely, I currently have the timer set to kick in and out when I’m here - that’s the advantage of it being fairly instantaneous heat, but on the flip side now I’ve switched to Cosy I’d lose the benefit of having it run during the cheap rate period before I arrive home to heat the flat up, for example.

With the new ceramic core heater I’ll have it coming on during the cheap rates, and if I need to boost the heat I could use the fan (or even the Beldray, once I know how it performs in terms of heat up times) at the standard rate when I get home.

wrf12345

Have you considered one of the all-in-one air conditioners that can also run as a heat pump, the smaller ones probably have a COP of around two (so you will get twice the heat for the same dosh) and are portable, the larger ones bolt to the wall with two large holes needed to the outside so possibly not workable with a flat. Post winter, the smaller ones are usually heavily discounted but they do need a hosepipe poking out of the building to get rid of cold air. 

Gerry1

What type of storage heaters are they, old ones with two knobs or modern ones with a screen and menus?  Make and model, please.

Gerry1

finallyfree23 said:

I also have an electric boiler for hot water.

Unlikely unless you have wet radiators. It's an immersion heater.

As space is such a problem, why don't you get rid of some furniture or replace it with smaller items?  Sounds like it's costing you dearly.

Veteransaver

Are you sure you are using your storage heaters correctly? Normally they have flaps to control the heat output. So you'd normally have these closed overnight and then open them in the morning, close them if you go out, open them in the evening. That way the as long as they are large enough for the size of the dwelling they should still be putting out heat into the evening from the energy they stored the previous night.
It's generally the cheapest form of electric heating (other than heat pump/air-conditioning) as long as you are on a cheap overnight tariff like E7

finallyfree23

Unfortunately the storage heaters are a bit of a moot point, as in terms of flat layout and where they’re located they can’t practically be used. It’s a very small 1 bed flat, and the wall with the storage heater in the living room is the only wall long enough for a sofa to sit up against - with the room not being wide enough to have the sofa pulled out away from the wall, similar issue in the bedroom, short of downsizing to a single bed there’s not enough space to fit a double without blocking the heater. 

The ceramic core heater is due to be delivered tomorrow, so will have a play over the weekend and see how I get on. Even just avoiding that expensive peak rate time and making the most of the super cheap rate when I’m home with the fan heater has helped massively the past 2 days since switching over, so I think correctly managed it will work out well.