Elderly parent in a council house, problems with neighbours and fence.

whatuk65

Hi I wonder if anyone has any advice on the best way to deal with this, 

My parents have lived in their council house for 45 years. A few years ago their next-door neighbour died and the property was sold. The new owners have rented it out to a not particularly nice couple, with 2 big angry dogs. They've let the back garden deteriorate, and it looks awful. The dogs have pushed the fence down which separates their garden from my parents. The neighbours have propped several bits of random rubbish up against it to try to stop the dogs from getting through, which looks even worse, and isn't gonna stop the dogs if they want to get through.

My parents have always taken a lot of pride in their garden, and now they avoid going out there. They're also worried about letting any of my family's children play out there, because of the dogs. 

I know the tenancy of council places always says the tenant is responsible for the fences, but in this circumstance expecting my parents who are in their 80's, to either install or pay thousands for a new fence seems crazy. The new owners never check on the property so we have no idea how to contact them to talk about it, and we also don't want to cause trouble with the neighbours, so I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on the best way to approach this. 

Thanks

pnefc42

New fences needn't be (too) expensive. I recently (day after new years day) had a 5ft feather board fence erected down one side of my garden (approximately 15m long) by a local 'handyman' type service (with lots of good recommendations) for £480 (he did a great job too). Seems a small price to pay for a secure border (and screening) so that your parents can enjoy their garden again? 

tacpot12

You can find out the name of the owner of the property via the Land Registry. It costs £7 to do so. You will then need to find an address for them, but this will be easier once you have their name. Hopefully it will be a more unusual name!

The party responsible for the fence will the person whose land it is on. Do you parents know if the fence is on their land, on the neighbours land or on the boundary line. If it'ss on the boundary line, then responsiblity can be shared, with your parent' landlord (the council) paying half the cost. 

It can be very difficult to establish where the boundary lies, and so it is better if the new owners next door accept that the fence lies fully on their land and that they are responsble for its upkeep. If I was the tenants, I would be onto my landlord to repair the fence.

silvercar

You could check on Land Registry who owns next door. That should give you the address of the owner. Or if you know the agent that let or sold the property, they may be willing to pass on a message. The deeds of next door property, that you could download for £7, will tell you who is responsible for that boundary, so you will be able to see if it is the landlord or the council.

whatuk65

Awesome, this is a great place to start, thanks!

p00hsticks

Regardless of who is responsible for maintaining the fence (and unless there is anything specific in the deeds there is often no requirement to have a fence at all, just to mark the boundary in some way, which could be as simple as a piece of string), I believe the neighbours have responsibility to ensure that their dogs are not able to escape their garden.

Whether that responsibility passed up to the landlord when they agreed to rent to people with dogs, I don't know... 

NameUnavailable

Try speaking to the neighbours, say you want to talk to their LL about repairing the fence and will they give you the contact details (although they may not know and deal via the agent).

They may not want to cooperate if the damage to the fence is their fault though and it might be easier for your parents to get the fence repaired to solve the problem, even if a bit unfair.

Finally, another option, get to know the dogs. Ask the neighbour to introduce them so that your parents don't feel so worried, most dogs will become very friendly when they get to know you.

dinosaur66

as a landlord i thought it was my repsonsibility to repair back garden fences from things like rot/wind/age /

i have done this three times in last 10 years on various propertys

i had no idea that if you rent from council the council say fences are tenants responsiblty / surprised me reading that. on this thread .

on my propertys the fences on the left as i go into the gardens are my responsiblty and on right neighbours not sure if this is general rule or just how mine are arranged.

ThisIsWeird

Yes, the landlord is responsible for maintaining the fabric, and that includes the fences the deeds indicate they are responsible for.
Having said that, unless the wording in the deeds makes it clear that a physical fence must be maintained, then there's very little one person can do to oblige another to 'do the right thing' and fit and fix one.
An obvious exception is if one party is a dawg or other animal owner; they are then responsible for securing these animals within their property, regardless of what the deeds say.
So, regardless of the deeds boundary 'responsibility' here, the neighbour must ensure their dawgs don't escape.
I'd be looking to tackle the landlord over this - they have presumably permitted their tenant to have dawgs, so they are responsible for securing the boundary, imv.
Whatuk, is this a terraced or semi-detached property? If so, it should be straight forward to determine where, to the inch, the true boundary lies. If the current fence is on your parent's side of this line, it's theirs. If on the neighb's, it's theirs. If on the line, it's 'party', so shared.
In addition, I would check their deeds to see what, if anything, it says about boundary responsibility. I'd also suggest getting a CCTV camera up to cover your parent's garden. If these dawgs are acting aggressively, barking loudly whenever you are out in the garden, jumping up on the fence and making it sway, then you really want to capture this. And don't avoid your garden - you act as normal. At some point, if you haven't already done so, point out to your neighbour how worrying their dogs' behaviour is, and ask if there's anything they can do to reduce it. If they are dismissive, then you'll have it captured. If the fence is badly damaged, ask them when they intend to secure it. Again, if dismissive, you've caught it.
Do you have Legal Protection included in your house insurance - do you have 'contents'? If so, call them up for guidance.
I have to say that, if this fence is shown as your responsibility in your deeds, then you should be considering having it replaced, as that is what you'd almost certainly do in any case, if these dogs weren't there. But, ultimate responsibility for keeping these dogs within their garden is your neighbour's.
If the dog's behaviour is genuinely concerning, or even just disruptive to your enjoyment of your home, gather evidence - recordings - and contact your LA. But please don't overegg the situation.

silvercar

Without seeing the tenancy agreement, you have no way of knowing if the landlord has agreed to the tenants having pets. 

AskAsk

dinosaur66 said:

as a landlord i thought it was my repsonsibility to repair back garden fences from things like rot/wind/age /

i have done this three times in last 10 years on various propertys

i had no idea that if you rent from council the council say fences are tenants responsiblty / surprised me reading that. on this thread .

on my propertys the fences on the left as i go into the gardens are my responsiblty and on right neighbours not sure if this is general rule or just how mine are arranged.

Councils don't maintain fences as they are social housing and you don't really need a fence to make a place habitable.