Leak to flat below: feel like I am overpaying

lb00

Hi all,

I recently bought a leasehold flat in London and had some renovation work done. Unfortunately, while I was away, a leak developed from the toilet flush plate. Since the water seeped behind the tiles, the tenants in the flat below notified me of a yellowish stain on their ceiling. The damage appears to be minimal (pictures attached).

Although the building has insurance, the manager advised that claiming would be impractical due to the high excess. They've now asked me to cover the cost of having a decorator repair the damage.

I initially offered to send my decorator at the same time he was coming to do touch-ups in my own flat - but the letting agents/landlord declined. Instead, they provided a quote from their own company/decorator, which amounts to £297 + VAT.

This seems rather steep considering the limited extent of the damage—unless they’re planning to redecorate the entire bathroom ceiling, which doesn’t seem necessary in this case.

What are my options here? On principle, I’m happy to cover the cost since the damage originated from my flat, but I also want to ensure the quote is fair and that I’m not being taken advantage of.

Thank you very much for your help.

anselld

You are not liable for such damage unless it was due to negligence on your part or your renovation contractor.    

[Deleted User]

Tell them they're lucky you're decent enough to offer repair. Offer once more to repair the damage at your own cost and if they decline, tell them to [redacted].

AskAsk

as said above, the flat owners downstairs need to claim on the buildings insurance and if the excess makes it impractical then that is their problem.  it isn't fair but that is how it works.

as the above poster has said, you aren't liable unless it was due to negligent or bad workmanship.

the cost quoted doesn't sound excessive as you can't just patch repair the ceiling.  to do a proper job, you need to paint the whole ceiling and water leaks will leave stain marks, which will need to be treated first with stain blocker before painting over it, else the water marks from the leaks will come through the paint, so it needs two visits.

the quote sound quite cheap actually.  but if you can do a good job to a good quality, then you do have the right to send in your own contractor to do the work, if you can get them to do it cheaper.

lb00

@anselld @[Deleted User]

Thanks for your replies.
I believe the leak was a result of the renovations, it's likely due to the plumber not tightening the hose in the flush plate correctly. I've talked to them extensively and they are adamant it's a faulty part instead which I don't believe. Unfortunately I had already paid the last instalment when this happened - they've agreed to cover only up to £200 so anything on top of that would have to come out of my pocket.

Could I ask for alternative quotes? Or just tell them this seems excessive to me given the extent of the damage and I am not prepared to pay this amount?
What could they do if I refuse to pay?

Thank you!

eddddy

lb00 said:

I've talked to them extensively and they are adamant it's a faulty part instead which I don't believe. Unfortunately I had already paid the last instalment when this happened - they've agreed to cover only up to £200 so anything on top of that would have to come out of my pocket.

Who supplied the part that was supposedly faulty? If it was the plumber, then the plumber is still liable.

lb00 said:

Could I ask for alternative quotes? Or just tell them this seems excessive to me given the extent of the damage and I am not prepared to pay this amount?
What could they do if I refuse to pay?

Your neighbour could make a court claim against you (i.e. sue you).

Or if there is something specific in your lease about this (which would be possible, but very unusual), your freeholder / management company might be able to take enforcement action against you. But as I say. that's unlikely.



But it sounds like it was the plumber who was negligent, not you - so the neighbour's claim should probably be against the plumber and not you.

So you could say something like this to the neighbour, if you want: "The plumber has offered £200 towards your redecoration costs, as a goodwill gesture. If you're unhappy with their offer, you'll need to negotiate directly with the plumber. That will be more efficient than me sitting in the middle passing messages backwards and forwards."

[Deleted User]

Looks to me like they want to whole room decorated to cover that mould I see in the corners. £200 is easily enough, even in London. It's unreasonable to demand you pay £360. I've just decorated a 35x17' room, walls and coving, with Farrow and Ball for half that price. (edit, not actually half, just checked, but no more).

saajan_12

lb00 said:

@anselld @[Deleted User]

Thanks for your replies.
I believe the leak was a result of the renovations, it's likely due to the plumber not tightening the hose in the flush plate correctly. I've talked to them extensively and they are adamant it's a faulty part instead which I don't believe. Unfortunately I had already paid the last instalment when this happened - they've agreed to cover only up to £200 so anything on top of that would have to come out of my pocket.

Could I ask for alternative quotes? Or just tell them this seems excessive to me given the extent of the damage and I am not prepared to pay this amount?
What could they do if I refuse to pay?

Thank you!

TBH £300 excl vat doesnt' sound at all excessive to paint a whole ceiling with enough coats to cover the yellow marks. The existing paint job wouldn't be brand new so just touch ups wouldn't be enough. 

Who supplied the part? If its the plumber, then arguably the cost is on them and its up to them to claim from the manufacturer. Even if you bought the part, should the plumber have checked before leaving it? 

user1977

As above I'm not sure the price sounds unreasonable for getting a tradesperson in to do it, I expect more than one coat will be needed

[Deleted User]

saajan_12 said:

lb00 said:

@anselld @[Deleted User]

Thanks for your replies.
I believe the leak was a result of the renovations, it's likely due to the plumber not tightening the hose in the flush plate correctly. I've talked to them extensively and they are adamant it's a faulty part instead which I don't believe. Unfortunately I had already paid the last instalment when this happened - they've agreed to cover only up to £200 so anything on top of that would have to come out of my pocket.

Could I ask for alternative quotes? Or just tell them this seems excessive to me given the extent of the damage and I am not prepared to pay this amount?
What could they do if I refuse to pay?

Thank you!

TBH £300 excl vat doesnt' sound at all excessive to paint a whole ceiling with enough coats to cover the yellow marks. The existing paint job wouldn't be brand new so just touch ups wouldn't be enough. 
 

Even if it's indeed the case a full repaint is necessary, that's £15 materials and 2 hours labour. Brief prep and two coats does the job. Add another hour for travel and admin and other 'consumables'. That's valuing the labour at almost £115 per hour. Labour rates for London should get you the finest decorator for £40 an hour. Then, bear in mind the repair should bring the ceiling back to its original state, not make it look brand new. From the mould and the discolouration it doesn't look like it's in great condition, so I'd say that warrants a discount.

ThisIsWeird

lb00 said:

I recently bought a leasehold flat in London and had some renovation work done. Unfortunately, while I was away, a leak developed from the toilet flush plate. Since the water seeped behind the tiles, the tenants in the flat below notified me of a yellowish stain on their ceiling. The damage appears to be minimal (pictures attached). Yes, it is.

Although the building has insurance, the manager advised that claiming would be impractical due to the high excess. Fair enough. 

They've now asked me to cover the cost of having a decorator repair the damage. Hmm, that's pushing it.

I initially offered to send my decorator at the same time he was coming to do touch-ups in my own flat That's a perfectly reasonable offer - assuming your P&D is a competent fellow.

- but the letting agents/landlord declined. Declining your offer of a professional P&D is unreasonable, and won't serve them well.

Instead, they provided a quote from their own company/decorator, which amounts to £297 + VAT. That's fine - IF they can prove you were negligent. You clearly were not, since you employed a professional plumber to install the bathroom. You can wash your hands off this issue if you wish.

This seems rather steep considering the limited extent of the damage—unless they’re planning to redecorate the entire bathroom ceiling, which doesn’t seem necessary in this case. Well, yes, the whole ceiling will need doing, as a patch will almost certainly show up. And, yes, that's a not-unfair quote for this. The stain will need cleaning, and then completely sealing. And then likely a couple of coats applied to the whole ceiling.

Bit's in bold above.

"What are my options here? On principle, I’m happy to cover the cost since the damage originated from my flat, but I also want to ensure the quote is fair and that I’m not being taken advantage of."

You are 'being taken advantage' of, not by the quote - which is reasonable - but by the fact you are seemingly being held liable for this damage - and you are not.

The ManCo/Agent are being a bit cheeky, but hey. You clearly wish to do the right thing, whilst not being taken for a ride - that's good of you. The plumber is offering £200 towards this - that's cheeky of him, but at least it's something.

What are your options?

1) Tell the ManCo and the flat below to sort it out in the correct legal manner - "and here's my plumber's details". Understandably, you don't feel good about doing this. Fair enough.

2) Pay the ManCo to use their own P&D at £297+VAT, with your plumber contributing £200, and you making up the balance of £150. Understandably, this doesn't sit too well with you either, and for a very good reason - this was not your fault! Why should you pay anything?!

3) Offer again - making it clear it's your only offer - to engage your own professional and reputable P&D to sort it; "Take it or leave it". Have you had a quote from your P&D? Will the plumber's £200 cover it? Bear in mind the whole ceiling will need a fresh coat, and also that he must seal in the stain thoroughly - it would be embarrassing for you if the stain broke through again :-).

4) Tell your plumber that they are fully liable, regardless of whether it was a faulty part or not - you paid him for 'supply and fit', and the installation leaked. Therefore, you regret you'll have to chase him for the full amount, using MoneyClaim.org if required. 

Which is best? I think, IF your own P&D is a pro, and IF the plumber's £200 will cover his cost (I'm guessing he'll be painting white ceilings for you too, so good chance it will?), then how can the ManCo or agent argue against this? It's surely the perfect, no-hassle outcome for them?