Paid £350 for Damp and Timber Survey – Report Lacks Key Details and Justification – Seeking Advice

FreeBear

newsgroupmonkey_ said: Ensure they're PCA registered. It's the first thing a surveyor should be telling you.

 The Property Care Association (PCA) is the trade body that promotes amongst other things, spray foam insulation, chemical DPCs, and a whole raft of questionable damp treatments. To be a member does not require any formal qualifications. Whilst the PCA do have a range of training courses, they only involve a short period of study, and the exams are of dubious value in my opinion.

Have had firs hand experience of a PCA "surveyor" telling me that fibreglass/rockwool loft insulation only has a lifespan of 8-10 years. And after looking in my loft, claimed he could put his hand down inside the wall cavity - Solid brick wall up there, so I leave you to work out how he achieved the impossible (and it wasn't divine intervention).

newsgroupmonkey_

dtnwf said:

First of all, who recommended them? The Surveyor? Because if they're getting a backhander, this isn't allowed.

We searched online for a Damp and Timber Survey and found them - the lender requested this be done. The surveyor owns the company who carries out the work to be done and also owns a development company. 

Ensure they're PCA registered

I've looked and they aren't listed in the PCA website search results

If they're saying they're RICS

Although the surveyors full name isn't listed on the report, I looked on companies house and got the full name so I searched the RICS website and they are listed.

The fact that they haven't even bothered to sign it sounds very dodgy.

The surveyor didnt sign but the receptionist I spoke to put her christian name at the bottom - no surname.

I'm so new to all of this that I dont know if my mistrust is completely misplaced. 

For all the hassle of it, I'd perhaps pay to get a second opinion. I know £350 is a lot to throw down the drain, but it sounds like it's not worth the paper it was written on.

dtnwf

The bungalow should already have a damp proof course, so doesn't need another. Does it have cavity or solid walls?

I couldn’t give a definitive answer but I believe it is solid walls.

For all the hassle of it, I'd perhaps pay to get a second opinion. I know £350 is a lot to throw down the drain, but it sounds like it's not worth the paper it was written on.

I agree, we’re sorting something. £350 is a lot of money down the drain right now but in the grand scheme of things I’d rather pay to get more information and clarity.

newsgroupmonkey_

FreeBear said:

newsgroupmonkey_ said: Ensure they're PCA registered. It's the first thing a surveyor should be telling you.

 The Property Care Association (PCA) is the trade body that promotes amongst other things, spray foam insulation, chemical DPCs, and a whole raft of questionable damp treatments. To be a member does not require any formal qualifications. Whilst the PCA do have a range of training courses, none of the qualifications they issue have any oversight from a recognised exam board (e.g. Oxford & Cambridge exam board).

Have had firs hand experience of a PCA "surveyor" telling me that fibreglass/rockwool loft insulation only has a lifespan of 8-10 years. And after looking in my loft, claimed he could put his hand down inside the wall cavity - Solid brick wall up there, so I leave you to work out how he achieved the impossible (and it wasn't divine intervention).

Whilst I fully appreciate this, I'm just saying that banks for some reason like this.

FreeBear

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

FreeBear said:

newsgroupmonkey_ said: Ensure they're PCA registered. It's the first thing a surveyor should be telling you.

 The Property Care Association (PCA) is the trade body that promotes amongst other things, spray foam insulation, chemical DPCs, and a whole raft of questionable damp treatments. To be a member does not require any formal qualifications. Whilst the PCA do have a range of training courses, none of the qualifications they issue have any oversight from a recognised exam board (e.g. Oxford & Cambridge exam board).

Have had firs hand experience of a PCA "surveyor" telling me that fibreglass/rockwool loft insulation only has a lifespan of 8-10 years. And after looking in my loft, claimed he could put his hand down inside the wall cavity - Solid brick wall up there, so I leave you to work out how he achieved the impossible (and it wasn't divine intervention).

Whilst I fully appreciate this, I'm just saying that banks for some reason like this.

Only because the PCA market themselves as a reputable organisation.

Madoff used to be well respected in the financial world, now look at him.

stuart45

To be fair to the PCA, they aren't going to market themselves as a bunch of cowboys.

youth_leader

My buyer's mortgage lender valued my house at £0 asking for a damp/timber survey. My EA rang me to tell me, and persuaded me to pay for a PCA damp/timber survey,  £300 the week before Christmas, I wasn't happy. I've seen the company mentioned on here several times as just salesmen.

Man turned up on a freezing day early January and asked why I hadn't 'lifted the floorboards'.  No-one told me to do it when I'd booked, and as we had Victorian floorboards I wasn't going to break one trying.   He did the report without inspecting the sub void and Nat West chucked the report out as unsuitable for a heritage building.  Upsetting.

stuart45

The problem with finding a damp surveyor is that there isn't a really decent qualification. Therefore, lenders rely on the few available qualifications like the PCA and RICS. 
The exams for the PCA are done through ABBE, which has levels from 1 to 6, the damp exams are probably around level 3. As this is from the Awarding Body for the Built Eveniorment the lenders accept this as a qualification.
The problem is that someone who has worked in the construction trade for many years will probably gain a lot from the home studies, practical training and exams, whereas someone with no construction experience can do enough to pass the exam, but really needs quite a few years experience in construction to really understand what's required.

Grotdog

Oh dear - this is fairly typical of the problems we see on a daily basis. Two things: Most RICS surveyors have not got a clue what moisture is. They all use cattle prod meters that cannot even accurately measure moisture content of freshly felled timber (you have to calibrate the reading to timber species!) - and as the author of the RICS Moisture Methodology (now known as the JPS) - I can confirm that there are probably a handful of RICS surveyors in the country that have the brain power to understand the science of water - funny, because water causes some 98 percent of all building defects. RICS are fraudulently partnered with the PCA - who are the chemical industry sales association - and most RICS valuations and surveys recommend PCA 'damp wallys'. Why would a so called chartered surveyor with 3 years of university, a degree, and all sorts of training, recommend an uneducated chemical salesman with no qualifications bar a weekend learning to sell damp meter readings? Because its a cop out. If 'damp' appears he can say he told you to get a damp wally report. The problem here is that under the constraints of the law, you can't go around recommending other 'experts' if you know full well they are just trained monkeys - when you are a highly qualified 'professional' and member of some regulatory body like rics. This situation is made worse by banks using panel valuers from RICS, none of whom understand, or want to understand, moisture in buildings. The banks want to sell more mortgages, so by getting valuers to recommend PCA damp wally to sell a survey that sells damp proofing, that money is going to be borrowed, and results in the bank making a lot of extra money over a 30 year mortgage. 

In short the system is broken - badly.

Damp isn't a big issue. Rising damp doesn't exist. Damp proofing is never needed. Ventilation, air flow, and gentle heat will keep the wettest house dry. Remember the enemy of a house is the people living in it. - They breathe, shower, cook, use fridges, dishwashers etc - and all these things produce gallons of water a day that the house has to deal with. Hence 'damp' symptoms (actually just condensation) in walls, on walls etc.

Look for the book - The Warm Dry Home - on the heritage house website - its FULL of information on this - and will save you thousands  - its just in re-print and new stock arrives soon I hear.

A proper damp survey is effectively a building survey - and they cost money - up to £1500 or more - damp surveys that are cheap, are worthless - and they'll nearly all sell chemicals and some form of snake oil - tanking, injection, timber treatment, re-plastering to a metre, etc - its all just snake oil. 

Albermarle

Grotdog said:

Oh dear - this is fairly typical of the problems we see on a daily basis. Two things: Most RICS surveyors have not got a clue what moisture is. They all use cattle prod meters that cannot even accurately measure moisture content of freshly felled timber (you have to calibrate the reading to timber species!) - and as the author of the RICS Moisture Methodology (now known as the JPS) - I can confirm that there are probably a handful of RICS surveyors in the country that have the brain power to understand the science of water - funny, because water causes some 98 percent of all building defects. RICS are fraudulently partnered with the PCA - who are the chemical industry sales association - and most RICS valuations and surveys recommend PCA 'damp wallys'. Why would a so called chartered surveyor with 3 years of university, a degree, and all sorts of training, recommend an uneducated chemical salesman with no qualifications bar a weekend learning to sell damp meter readings? Because its a cop out. If 'damp' appears he can say he told you to get a damp wally report. The problem here is that under the constraints of the law, you can't go around recommending other 'experts' if you know full well they are just trained monkeys - when you are a highly qualified 'professional' and member of some regulatory body like rics. This situation is made worse by banks using panel valuers from RICS, none of whom understand, or want to understand, moisture in buildings. The banks want to sell more mortgages, so by getting valuers to recommend PCA damp wally to sell a survey that sells damp proofing, that money is going to be borrowed, and results in the bank making a lot of extra money over a 30 year mortgage. 

In short the system is broken - badly.

Damp isn't a big issue. Rising damp doesn't exist. Damp proofing is never needed. Ventilation, air flow, and gentle heat will keep the wettest house dry. Remember the enemy of a house is the people living in it. - They breathe, shower, cook, use fridges, dishwashers etc - and all these things produce gallons of water a day that the house has to deal with. Hence 'damp' symptoms (actually just condensation) in walls, on walls etc.

Look for the my book - The Warm Dry Home - on the heritage house website - its FULL of information on this - and will save you thousands  - its just in re-print and new stock arrives soon I hear.

A proper damp survey is effectively a building survey - and they cost money - up to £1500 or more - damp surveys that are cheap, are worthless - and they'll nearly all sell chemicals and some form of snake oil - tanking, injection, timber treatment, re-plastering to a metre, etc - its all just snake oil. 

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