Neighbours access rights

GWoodward

Hi. Just wondering if anyone can advise. We own the hedge between us and our neighbours but in the deeds, they have right of access to our side of the hedge (driveway). They have asked us if they can put a gate in the hedge to access their vegetable garden through our driveway. We said no months ago and thought nothing of it. They didn’t bring it up again. This week we have had a letter of complaint to the council (not upheld by the council) and a letter from their solicitor saying we have 21 days to contest or 8 weeks to prepare the ground for access through the hedge. We are not contesting their right of access but assumed it meant they had to walk around the hedge not come through it. Before we involve solicitor costs, does anyone know whether they have the right to come through our hedge to access our property??

Cressida100

Sorry I cannot help with the answer but do you have legal cover on your home insurance?

molerat

How precisely do the deeds, both yours and theirs, define that access right ?  Was the hedge in place when the deeds were drawn up ?  And a picture / drawing or two paints a thousand words.

ThisIsWeird

As said above - we need specific information.
Your deeds - and your neighbour's - should show via a diagram, and explain in writing, exactly what this RoW entails.
It should be obvious whether the allocated route is 'through' your hedge or around it.
Again - do you have LegProt?

Section62

GWoodward said:

Hi. Just wondering if anyone can advise. We own the hedge between us and our neighbours but in the deeds, they have right of access to our side of the hedge (driveway). They have asked us if they can put a gate in the hedge to access their vegetable garden through our driveway. We said no months ago and thought nothing of it. They didn’t bring it up again. This week we have had a letter of complaint to the council (not upheld by the council) and a letter from their solicitor saying we have 21 days to contest or 8 weeks to prepare the ground for access through the hedge. We are not contesting their right of access but assumed it meant they had to walk around the hedge not come through it. Before we involve solicitor costs, does anyone know whether they have the right to come through our hedge to access our property??

Unless there is something specific to the contrary, the general principle of rights of way is you can access them from any point where they touch your land.  So if the RoW is adjacent to the boundary then the neighbour ought (in theory) to be able to access their land from any point rather than walking all the way to a specific access point.

The question in your case is how the hedge came to be there, and what impact does it have on the neighbour's rights.  If the width of the RoW only extends to the face of the hedge (on your side) and the hedge is planted on a strip of land you own which doesn't have a RoW over it then the neighbour can't use the 'touching' principle because the RoW doesn't touch there.

So how is the RoW defined, and was it there before the hedge?  In the worst case (for you) the hedge could be obstructing the RoW and the neighbour could ask you to remove it all.

Given going legal could be expensive (for both sides) you need to have a think about how important is it to stop them having a new gate.  Is there a particular reason why you don't want them to take a shortcut?

Also, what was the complaint to the council about and why didn't they uphold it?  Is this a 'high hedge' issue, or something else?

GWoodward

The deeds show a boundary line all around the perimeter of our property which three sides have a hedge and the forth is the neighbours and a shared driveway. There is a “T” on all the boundaries which face into our property and the deeds say that we are responsible for the hedge. Most of the shared access is the driveway and the seeds say that the neighbours should have access for vehicles and animals. However, there is a small narrow area of land that ends in a farmers field that has a non opening gate (like this when we bought the property). This is the area of land they are complaining about. We have a small log shed and greenhouse here that have been there for over 5 years. This is what the council complaint was about which has not been upheld. Apparently you are not supposed to put any type of building to the front of your house. As this has been there more than 5 years, the council have said they wouldn’t go any further with this complaint. 

The location they want the gate is right next to where we park our car’s outside our house. It would mean we would have to park down the driveway. We once did this as we had a bonfire to clear the hedge debris and the neighbours complained even though they could see it was temporary. 

We would have to park considerably away from our house and we have three young children it would be a considerable annoyance and we are then parking closer to the neighbours house
i can take a picture tomorrow as it is dark now. 

Section62

GWoodward said:

The deeds show a boundary line all around the perimeter of our property which three sides have a hedge and the forth is the neighbours and a shared driveway. There is a “T” on all the boundaries which face into our property and the deeds say that we are responsible for the hedge.

Being "responsible for" isn't the same as owning.  You may need to quote the exact wording of this section of the deeds so we can understand exactly what it means.  Is the hedge on the boundary - as in the stems/trunks are on the boundary line, or are they planted some distance in from the boundary?

GWoodward said:

Most of the shared access is the driveway and the seeds say that the neighbours should have access for vehicles and animals. However, there is a small narrow area of land that ends in a farmers field that has a non opening gate (like this when we bought the property). This is the area of land they are complaining about. We have a small log shed and greenhouse here that have been there for over 5 years. This is what the council complaint was about which has not been upheld. Apparently you are not supposed to put any type of building to the front of your house. As this has been there more than 5 years, the council have said they wouldn’t go any further with this complaint.

So a planning breach.  You may have problems when you come to sell, so make sure you keep that letter.

GWoodward said:

The location they want the gate is right next to where we park our car’s outside our house. It would mean we would have to park down the driveway. We once did this as we had a bonfire to clear the hedge debris and the neighbours complained even though they could see it was temporary. 

We would have to park considerably away from our house and we have three young children it would be a considerable annoyance and we are then parking closer to the neighbours house

How would having a new gateway in the hedge stop you parking where you currently do?  We'll need to see pictures and/or a plan, but if parking where the new gateway would be is a problem then it suggests where you are parking now may be obstructing the RoW. Unless the layout is completely different to what I have in mind.

It sounds like you've already got a wide-ranging neighbour dispute going on.  Are they asking for the gateway just to annoy you, or does it have a reasonable purpose?

GWoodward

I’m photographing from my house. The far wall is the neighbours wall with veg patch on other side. Where they want the gate is where the hedge start’s behind the black car. The solicitor letter states we have 8 weeks to provide unrestricted access for the gate which means we can no longer park the car there. 

Yes, neighbour issues. Twice when we were in holiday the neighbours put weed killer down at the base of the wall you can see. The neighbours own the wall but we own up to the wall. We asked them what chemicals it was and they didn’t know. We have three small children, chickens and bees and asked them not to put it down again. Things got sour after that as they said it was their wall and they could do what they like. 

They want a gate there so they can get a wheel barrow to the left of the veg patch. It is slightly terraced downwards to the house. They have access to veg patch to the right of the wall and from their back garden. 

I will re read the deeds. I assumed having to maintain the hedge meant we owned it but will clarify. Thanks 

Section62

GWoodward said:

I’m photographing from my house. The far wall is the neighbours wall with veg patch on other side. Where they want the gate is where the hedge start’s behind the black car. The solicitor letter states we have 8 weeks to provide unrestricted access for the gate which means we can no longer park the car there. 

Yes, neighbour issues. Twice when we were in holiday the neighbours put weed killer down at the base of the wall you can see. The neighbours own the wall but we own up to the wall. We asked them what chemicals it was and they didn’t know. We have three small children, chickens and bees and asked them not to put it down again. Things got sour after that as they said it was their wall and they could do what they like. 

They want a gate there so they can get a wheel barrow to the left of the veg patch. It is slightly terraced downwards to the house. They have access to veg patch to the right of the wall and from their back garden. 

I will re read the deeds. I assumed having to maintain the hedge meant we owned it but will clarify. Thanks 

So the right of way comes from the right edge of the picture, then goes alongside the wall and then up the track(?) alongside the hedge where the people are? And the neighbours own the land the other side of the wall and hedge?

If so, it is hard to see how the black car isn't obstructing the RoW, especially as they have a vehicular right.

Likewise, following the line of the wall makes it look like the hedge is on the neighbour's side of the boundary, unless the boundary dog-legs at that point. Something doesn't look right.

In terms of their use of weedkiller - if you use pesticides you are supposed to know what they are and what risks are involved.  You are also only meant to use them on your own property.  Although arguably they are using it on their own property if they are applying it to the face of their wall.  Once dried, the herbicides currently on the market for domestic use shouldn't have adverse effects on bees, chickens or people.  The neighbour shouldn't have a problem telling you what they are using and warning you to keep your children/chickens/pets etc away from the area.  Presumably they took advantage of you being on holiday meaning your children and chickens would be elsewhere and not at risk?

Grumpy_chap

GWoodward said:

I’m photographing from my house. The far wall is the neighbours wall with veg patch on other side. Where they want the gate is where the hedge start’s behind the black car. The solicitor letter states we have 8 weeks to provide unrestricted access for the gate which means we can no longer park the car there. 

Yes, neighbour issues. Twice when we were in holiday the neighbours put weed killer down at the base of the wall you can see. The neighbours own the wall but we own up to the wall. We asked them what chemicals it was and they didn’t know. We have three small children, chickens and bees and asked them not to put it down again. Things got sour after that as they said it was their wall and they could do what they like. 

They want a gate there so they can get a wheel barrow to the left of the veg patch. It is slightly terraced downwards to the house. They have access to veg patch to the right of the wall and from their back garden. 

I will re read the deeds. I assumed having to maintain the hedge meant we owned it but will clarify. Thanks 

It is not clear from that photo where the hedge is.
Can you sketch a simple plan?
From my understanding of what you describe, you would not really be restricted in where to park the car - well, maybe a couple of feet back from the place it is currently but not the level of impact described up thread.  Obviously, this may be down to mapping the textual description to the photo and not aligning the two correctly.

ThisIsWeird

Any chance of sight of the deeds map, GWoodward, showing the RoW? Along with any written description of the covenant/RoW.
Once knowledgeable folk on here have seen this and hopefully confirmed the situation, then you can sit down, have a cuppa, and look at the situation rationally and impassively (which is becoming harder, as you both seem to be engaging in some titfortat behaviour). 
If, for example, the situation is as I 'understand' it from your description, then currently your neighbour has to come up their drive, past the hedge, walk up along their side of the RH wall, and back down your side of this wall, down your drive where the black car is parked, to get to their veg garden? Could you confirm, please?
And they are asking for a gate where the wall and hedge meets? And that gate would mean you'd have to keep your car back around 2 or so feet, but they'd no longer have any reason to walk down the length of your drive?
I am hoping I have misunderstood.