Appointed SASS Administrators renege on the agreement

krissy08

Help,
We set up our sass and went with an admin  company we have found unfortunately to be unsatisfactory in the services provided.
We joined the scheme in July 2022 and paid annual fees and were advised we would have annual board meetings with them to discuss the Sass.
In the next year, they demanded their annual fees in January 2023 much to our surpise and when we pushed back on this - they apologised for asking too early and agreed for the fees to be paid on the aniversary of our sign up.
Subsequently though they reverted to taking their fees in January and my partner just simply paid. Secondly when we did ask for a board meeting in 2024 , they simply ignored our emails and no meeting was held throughout 2024. When we pushed back on this- we were told we had the option of a paid for meeting with the owner. We then subsequently decided to leave in 2025 after they again demanded their fees in January. I stated I would not be happy to pay their transfer fees. They have now sent an effectively deadlock letter after failing to respond to the new sass admin's email transfer request from the 6th of February.  Can I push for them to respond to the new administrators?. We have been informally advised they are not going top proceed with the transfer until i stop disputing the fees,

 I contacted the pension ombudsman I was told to make it an offical complaint with the admin company. How do I get my transfer out sorted but still keep the complaint going?. I have been assured by the pension ombudsman they will still keep the complaint alive and await the 8 week response time but what wording can I use to now to get my transfer out without waiving the fee.
  
Their defence is that we were informed their fees are due 'annually in advance' (we never disputed this but we never read this to mean January of every year ...,) but they think this statement legally means that. are they correct? even after a first year apology?  they also now state the annual board meeting incurs a charge- something that they on video said was included in the fees and go as far as withdrawing the offer of one since we are intent on leaving . They then state they will pro-rata this years annual fee and the transfer fee remains applicable and cannot be waived' but they have delayed my transfer out by not responding to the new admin's requests..
 Any thoughts please

tacpot12

The correct answer for the fees is that they owe the fees they took in July 2023 (they took 12 months of fees in July 2023 but only provided 6 months of service before taking the next set of fees). You owe them upto the point where the transfer takes place. 

The fact that they stated fees were due annually in advance is meaningless unless they confirmed in writing that fees were due on 1st Jan. 

I think I would give up on the board meeting just to get out of the contract, and move to a reasonable provider. 

I don't think you can push for them to respond to the new adminsitrators until your have paid your fees for the year less the pro-ratering and the adjustment for the fees they took in July 2023. 

If the transfer fee was described to out from the outset, then I can't see why it should be waived, other than as a goodwill because you have been uphappy with the service.

krissy08

Thank you so much. We already paid for the year upfront in January 2025, even though in our view it ws not due yet. We are now in February and they have failed to respond to the new administrators because we disputed the transfer out fees. I will now accept the fee under protest as I feel they will delay the process for as long as possible to pro-rata the fees. I really don't care about the board meeting as I have decided to move but in your opinion, would this be considered a breach if I was promised an annual meeting at the onset and they now state it was not a term of the contract?. I do havbe them on video stating this was included .

DRS1

Presumably the contract is in writing?  What does it say about meetings?  Was the video before or after the contract was signed and dated?
And what does it say about fees - especially transfer fees.
By the by SSASs have trustees - are the administrators one of the trustees?  You will want to change that.
Is there a property in the SSAS?  If so you may need to get that re-registered.

krissy08

Hi-Yes the agreement is in writing and we have all the documents. It states annual review meetings teleconference (Free).  
It does clearly mention the transfer out fees-£750, our request was more around the way they had ignored our requests for meetings and taken fees form the account without our knowledge (happened once ) and that we have been forced to leave basically.

In the video they call this a 'board meeting' hence my phrasing. Yes they insisted on being trustees so we are in the process of having that removed. Someone in the company just advised they have been asked to put our transfer on hold because we have disputed the transfer out fees. do I just give up on that but still add it in my complaint? No Property yet thank goodness. 

DRS1

I think you will have to pay the transfer fee.  You could perhaps say that you are doing so without prejudice to your complaint.
Sounds like you have a case about the meetings - though maybe not if you were after a physical meeting rather than one over the phone.

krissy08

Dear all, An update on this ongoing saga. 

I am very happy with my new sass practitioners
My previous ones failed to respond to my formal complaint (I have a reference number for my logged complaint with the Pensions Ombudsman). They told me to give the administrators 8 weeks to respond to my complaint and they have now missed that deadline with no update after a first acknowledgement.
They then last week charged me almost double (shy of £100) for pension administrator fees to leave them( vs the fees outlines in the scheme fees document for the year) - even though the process took 3 months because they created a delay at almost every step of the way.

They never did refund any of the full year upfront fees they took in January- even though my year begings in June. I reminded them of my complaint just before the transfer to my new administrators was completed and this was ignored.

My question is - how much power does the ombudsman have? Will they critically look at this in it's entirety of I go back to them now the time has lapsed? Is there a more powerful body to take my complaint to?

krissy08

Hello all,
We set up our SASS and went with an admin company we have found, unfortunately to be unsatisfactory in the services provided.
We joined the scheme in July 2022 and paid annual fees, and were advised that we would have annual board meetings with them to discuss the Sass.
In the next year, they demanded their annual fees in January 2023 much to our surpise and when we pushed back on this - they apologised for asking too early and agreed for the fees to be paid on the anniversary of our sign-up.
Subsequently, though, they reverted to taking their fees in January, and my partner just simply paid. Secondly, when we did ask for a board meeting in 2024, they simply ignored our emails, and no meeting was held throughout 2024. When we pushed back on this- we were told we had the option of a paid-for meeting with the owner. We then subsequently decided to leave in 2025 after they again demanded their fees in January. I stated I would not be happy to pay their transfer fees. They have now sent an effectively deadlocked letter after failing to respond to the new sass admin's email transfer request from the 6th of February. Can I push for them to respond to the new administrators?. We have been informally advised they are not going top proceed with the transfer until i stop disputing the fees,
I contacted the pension ombudsman, I was told to make it an official complaint with the admin company. How do I get my transfer out sorted but still keep the complaint going?. I have been assured by the pension ombudsman that they will still keep the complaint alive and await the 8-week response time. 
Their defence is that we were informed their fees are due 'annually in advance' (we never disputed this, but we never read this to mean January of every year ....), but they think this statement legally means that. Are they correct? Even after a first-year apology? they also now state the annual board meeting incurs a charge- something that they on video said was included in the fees, and go as far as withdrawing the offer of one, since we are intent on leaving. They then state they will pro-rata this year's annual fee, and the transfer fee remains applicable and cannot be waived, but they have delayed my transfer out by not responding to the new admin's requests.
I MOVED AWAY after much delay and I am very happy with my new sasspractitioners 
The previous ones failed to respond to my formal complaint (I have a reference number for my logged complaint with the Pensions Ombudsman). They told me to give the administrators 8 weeks to respond to my complaint and they have now missed that deadline with no update after a first acknowledgement.
They then last week charged me almost double (shy of £100) for pension administrator fees to leave them( vs the fees outlined in the scheme fees document for the year) - even though the process took 3 months because they created a delay at almost every step of the way.

They never did refund any of the full-year upfront fees they took in January, even though my year begins in June. I reminded them of my complaint just before the transfer to my new administrators was completed, and this was ignored.

My question is - how much power does the ombudsman have? Will they critically look at this in it's entirety of will I go back to them now that the time has lapsed? Is there a more powerful body to take my complaint to?

Marcon

I have asked for this to be merged with your thread asking similar questions. You are more likely to get helpful answers if those responding can see as many facts as possible in one place, rather than starting a new thread each time.

The PO's website spells out their powers and what they can and can't do. Be aware that they are not there to settle petty squabbles or intervene simply to save trustees or companies the cost of legal advice and the bother of sorting out their own issues! 

1. In total, what is the quantum of the fees you are claiming you have been over-charged? 
2. Do the T&C permit the 'old' administrators to delay payment of the transfer pending settlement of outstanding fees?
3. Have you suffered actual financial loss as a consequence of the delay?

krissy08

Hello Marcon, Thanks for merging my chat.

I have suffered a financial loss because I had to hire new administrators who have charged me fees for the same period they retained my annual fee for. I chose the new admins in February, and my transfer just got completed last week. I paid the annual upfront fee to them as well, approximately 1800 plus VAT, which the previous admins too early in January- does this count? In total, I would say they have been overpaid or taken undue fees of about £1000, but to be honest, it's the principle of it all.

They also never replied to my complaint within the 8-week deadline- I got only a courtesy reply stating they take complaints very seriously....

I can't see this explicit statement in the T&CS but they caused a delay every step of the way, and we never withheld payment as the contract states they can withdraw their fees as and when due after informing us.

Does this mean SSAS admins can pretty much do what they want? It does not seem fair

Marcon

krissy08 said:

Hello Marcon, Thanks for merging my chat.

I have suffered a financial loss because I had to hire new administrators who have charged me fees for the same period they retained my annual fee for. I chose the new admins in February, and my transfer just got completed last week. I paid the annual upfront fee to them as well, approximately 1800 plus VAT, which the previous admins too early in January- does this count? In total, I would say they have been overpaid or taken undue fees of about £1000, but to be honest, it's the principle of it all.

They also never replied to my complaint within the 8-week deadline- I got only a courtesy reply stating they take complaints very seriously....

I can't see this explicit statement in the T&CS but they caused a delay every step of the way, and we never withheld payment as the contract states they can withdraw their fees as and when due after informing us.

Does this mean SSAS admins can pretty much do what they want? It does not seem fair

No, SSAS admins can't do 'pretty much what they want'. There is a contract between the parties and both sides have to act in accordance with that, unless that contract is varied using the method(s) stipulated in the contract. If the old administrators have charged in accordance with that, then there's unlikely to be a 'financial loss' as such - just poor value for money.

A SSAS is entirely novel territory for most people. Have you ever taken proper professional advice on the contract you signed, either at the time of signing or since? Do you actually understand it, or fully understand your responsibility as a trustee of a trust-based occupational pension scheme? SSASs went through a period of being flogged as the answer to the universe for small companies, when in reality they are complex little things requiring far more care and attention than, say, a group personal pension. There was a post on here recently from someone who didn't even know how to get their pension out of a SSAS when the time came - and was highly resistant to the suggestion they might need to do some groundwork on their responsibilities. 

People can get rather strung up about doing things 'on principle' (which I completely understand), but it can waste an awful lot of time, energy and money. Unless your old SSAS provider has acted outside the terms of the contract, and their behaviour has been wholly out of line with normal professional standards (pensions aren't exactly the speediest of animals, even in the smartest hands), then feeling disgruntled is reasonable, but expecting the PO to expend resources acting as referee...rather less so. There is also a very long wait for cases to be considered.

Why not chase up a reply to your complaint and see if you can get a response which might close this down and let you get on with running your business without this as a running sore?