Minster Baywatch Ltd - Meadowhall

Stefano123

Hello everyone,

Firstly, thanks to everyone who has contributed over the years to the forum. It’s been nearly 15 years since I or any of my closest family members have paid a PCN – including a few successful court cases! I’m reasonably familiar with the process, but this case is entirely new to me, so I’m hoping for some guidance.

I’m currently embroiled in a frustrating dispute over a PCN issued to my lease vehicle. For context, the parking operator appears to have served the registered keeper (i.e. my leasing company) within 14 days as is standard. However, my leasing company, instead of passing on my details, has sent me a letter informing me that the operator has refused them the opportunity to transfer liability to me as the hirer, insisting instead that they as the registered keeper remains liable.

My leasing company has rightly asserted to me that they cannot appeal on my behalf. However, they are directing me to appeal—and warning that if I do not take action or the appeal fails, they will impose a charge against me. My position is that I am not currently liable (they are) and, therefore, cannot appeal unless the registered keeper complies with their duty under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) by transferring liability to me. In my view, if the lease company is accurate, the operator is in clear breach of PoFA if they deny them the opportunity to transfer liability to the hirer.

I have already emailed the leasing company, stating that they cannot legally hold me liable for the charge, if they do not follow the process required by the PoFA, and I’ve requested evidence that the operator is indeed denying them the ability to transfer liability. While I feel confident about my understanding of the law, I worry that the leasing company may not be as familiar with PoFA. There is a real risk they might simply follow the operator’s instructions, pay the charge (given at the moment I'm not going to admit liability), and then deduct the amount from my direct debit for lease payments, which means getting that money back is a different battle!

I’ve argued that technically neither the leasing company nor I should be held accountable for this charge, at it stands, as it fails to meet the statutory requirements. 

Has anyone experienced a similar situation or have any advice on how best to proceed? Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help!

Coupon-mad

Try an appeal as lessee/hirer, attaching the lease firm's letter and asking MB to either send you a Notice to Hirer to your address which is BLAH, or send you a rejection letter and POPLA cod so you can appeal it further as the named hirer.  See attached letter authorising me to appeal.

Stefano123

I understand that I can technically appeal as hirer but legally, as things stand, I'm not liable for the PCN until the lease company and the operator comply with the PoFA? I'm guessing you're saying do the operator appeal and then at POPLA show the non-compliance with the PoFA by way of registered keeper transfer of liability?   

Umkomaas

Stefano123 said:

I understand that I can technically appeal as hirer but legally, as things stand, I'm not liable for the PCN until the lease company and the operator comply with the PoFA? I'm guessing you're saying do the operator appeal and then at POPLA show the non-compliance with the PoFA by way of registered keeper transfer of liability?   

Yep, do that. You are the hirer (make no mention of driver!), get your rejection and POPLA code, win there. Hook the PPC away from the lease company. 

Stefano123

After the appeal as the hirer, the operator neither accepted nor rejected the appeal. They stated:

“We note that you refuse liability for this charge and decline to provide the driver’s details. As such, the liability remains with the keeper of the vehicle. There is no further action required from you at this point.”

Essentially, they’re going to pursue the lease hirer as register keeper it seems. Unfortunately, the lease company doesn’t seem to understand how private parking charges work, so I’m worried they’ll just debit my account. I’ve already sent the lease hirer a letter explaining that this isn’t a “fine” but an invoice, and that neither they nor the operator can enforce a charge against me.

I’m in uncharted territory here, so I’m trying to stay one step ahead. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Coupon-mad

Stefano123 said:

After the appeal as the hirer, the operator neither accepted nor rejected the appeal. They stated:

“We note that you refuse liability for this charge and decline to provide the driver’s details. As such, the liability remains with the keeper of the vehicle. There is no further action required from you at this point.”

Essentially, they’re going to pursue the lease hirer as register keeper it seems. Unfortunately, the lease company doesn’t seem to understand how private parking charges work, so I’m worried they’ll just debit my account. I’ve already sent the lease hirer a letter explaining that this isn’t a “fine” but an invoice, and that neither they nor the operator can enforce a charge against me.

I’m in uncharted territory here, so I’m trying to stay one step ahead. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Tell the lease firm to transfer liability to you by urgently providing your name and address to the parking timewasters, so that they are no longer going to receive any letters and you can appeal.

Also tell them that YOU WILL NOT PAY if they pay the invoice, and ask why they didn't simply transfer liability as required by the BVRLA in the first place.

Stefano123

I believe the lease company didn't simply transfer liability as required by the BVRLA in the first place because they stated that they are unwilling to provide the hire agreement to MB as a breach of GDPR. They have also failed to provide evidence that MB won't let them transfer liability, which is what they claim initially; chiefly because that is not true. There is an option on MB's appeal system for them to appeal as RK. They have also told me that they "can't" appeal on my behalf, which I've told them is correct but they can appeal on their own behalf.  

I've also documented communication telling them not to pay the invoice.

Lease company evidently don't know what they're doing!

Coupon-mad

Stefano123 said:

I believe the lease company didn't simply transfer liability as required by the BVRLA in the first place because they stated that they are unwilling to provide the hire agreement to MB as a breach of GDPR. They have also failed to provide evidence that MB won't let them transfer liability, which is what they claim initially; chiefly because that is not true. There is an option on MB's appeal system for them to appeal as RK. They have also told me that they "can't" appeal on my behalf, which I've told them is correct but they can appeal on their own behalf.  

I've also documented communication telling them not to pay the invoice.

Lease company evidently don't know what they're doing!

Tell the lease firm that they can't hide behind GDPR because you expressly CONSENT to them releasing the Hire Agreement (with your bank details covered if they appear).  In fact you INSIST that they provide it and transfer liability. Tell them 'for goodness sake stop faffing and ceding control / leaking money to the rogue parking industry, wise up and prioritise the interests of their customers'!

Castle

There's an exemption to the GDPR provisions in respect of legal proceedings which includes, defending legal rights under 5(3)(c). (It' s the same "excuse" that the DVLA uses):-
Data Protection Act 2018

Stefano123

Thanks for clearing that up I believed that them providing the hire agreement to the operator undermines my case under PoFA so wasn't going to protest too much but you're saying to instruct the lease company to release the hire agreement and transfer liability to me. To that end I assume you're suggesting to appeal based on signage? 

Coupon-mad

Stefano123 said:

Thanks for clearing that up I believed that them providing the hire agreement to the operator undermines my case under PoFA so wasn't going to protest too much but you're saying to instruct the lease company to release the hire agreement and transfer liability to me.  

Yes of course I am!  That MUST happen! You are wrong that it undermines your case. 

To that end I assume you're suggesting to appeal based on signage?

No.  You'd still use the 'NTH not compliant' Edna Basher appeal.