Update on noisy neighbours issue

incus432

This case may be of interest too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8p3dd5ez3o

Note the comments of Baroness Helen Newlove, the victims' commissioner for England and Wales.

HillStreetBlues

It's a broken system. The council who hold the enforcement powers, but it's the same council who will need to find another accommodation for the children, That accommodation could cost the council far more than it does now.
With this system any wonder the council delays and delays as while they do it's not their problem.

RHemmings

It sounds to me that the Local Government Ombudsman is the next logical step. 

After having a quick look into things, I believe that if noise issues only need to be disclosed on the TA10 form if it progressed as far as a complaint. If that's correct, then it may be that the previous owner wasn't bound to disclose when they sold, but the OP will be as they have officially complained. It may be the case that it's necessary to disclose if there has been an argument over the noise. But, that's much harder to define what is or isn't noise, or what is an argument and what isn't. But, an official complaint seems to count. Is it possible to find out if the previous owner made any complaints? The landlord of the problematic flat might be someone to ask. 

user1977

RHemmings said:

After having a quick look into things, I believe that if noise issues only need to be disclosed on the TA10 form if it progressed as far as a complaint. If that's correct

It isn't (where are you getting that belief from?).

Read the relevant questions on the TA10. The OP is already well beyond the point of having to declare it.

sheramber

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

After having a quick look into things, I believe that if noise issues only need to be disclosed on the TA10 form if it progressed as far as a complaint. If that's correct

It isn't (where are you getting that belief from?).

Read the relevant questions on the TA10. The OP is already well beyond the point of having to declare it.

Read the next sentence after your quote. 

That statement did not refer to the OP and did clarify that the OP would have to report it if selling.

user1977

sheramber said:

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

After having a quick look into things, I believe that if noise issues only need to be disclosed on the TA10 form if it progressed as far as a complaint. If that's correct

It isn't (where are you getting that belief from?).

Read the relevant questions on the TA10. The OP is already well beyond the point of having to declare it.

Read the next sentence after your quote. 

That statement did not refer to the OP and did clarify that the OP would have to report it if selling.

Fair enough, but it still goes on to talk about "official" complaints. There is no such distinction among types of complaint as far as the disclosures on the TA10 are concerned.

RHemmings

user1977 said:

RHemmings said:

After having a quick look into things, I believe that if noise issues only need to be disclosed on the TA10 form if it progressed as far as a complaint. If that's correct

It isn't (where are you getting that belief from?).

Read the relevant questions on the TA10. The OP is already well beyond the point of having to declare it.

EDIT: Thanks @sheramber

@user1977: You have misunderstood my post. I explicitly said that the OP was already beyond that point, as they have made complaints. I was discussing whether the previous owner legally should have disclosed noise issues in the TA10 from when the OP bought their flat. Which, if there hasn't been a dispute (e.g. official complaints) is much more of a grey area. 

I looked at a number of sources before posting, including this one. 

https://www.horts.co.uk/news/how-to-sell-your-property-with-bad-neighbours.html

In the case where there have been formal complaints, then it is clear that legally needs to be disclosed. But, just noise in itself with no argument or complaints is far less clear. As the above link says. 

As per my post above (not in your quote) we don't know if the seller of the flat (not the OP) had any arguments or made any complaints. We do know that the OP has made complaints. 

user1977 said:

Fair enough, but it still goes on to talk about "official" complaints. There is no such distinction among types of complaint as far as the disclosures on the TA10 are concerned.

As per my post, where there have been official complaints is the clearest situation. Verbal complaints (for example) are far less clear. Significant verbal only dispute should be declared also, but there is no clear demarcation between an offhand comment that wouldn't require disclosure, through shades of grey, to The Hatfields and The McCoys. Hence, if the OP wishes to sue, finding very clear evidence such as official complaints and documented argument (e.g. emails to the noisy neighbour's landlord) would be best. If available. Which quite likely they won't be. TL;DR for this bit: It makes a difference if the OP wishes to sue because showing there was an official complaint is much clearer evidence to support their case. 

littlemissbliss

swingaloo said:

If you dont have name or address for the landlord where has your solicitor sent the noise recording to. You said the landlord was refusing it

My solicitor will have his details - or to plexus. I have thought about asking him for them. But as the landlord has ignored me for the last year, I can’t see him being any different now. 

littlemissbliss

LoopyLoops said:

littlemissbliss said:

Baldytyke88 said:

littlemissbliss said:

There should be a law on this, it’s not right that certain people are protected while others have to suffer. I have no option left to me but to spend a fortune, whichever way you look at it - when it would be so much easier if the person above was just considerate. 

If anyone has more suggestions do let me know. 

I think very few will have experience of living in a flat. My daughter came to live with me and installed wood flooring in her bedroom, so it's now very noisy. But none of the neighbours complained. It would be cheaper to pay for the flat above to have thick carpets than mess with your ceiling. Some flats in my area are for those over 55s only.

Noise is very subjective, maybe the noise didn't bother the last owners.

Unfortunately the landlord is not willing to get involved. He says it’s nothing to do with him. I have already suggested going 50/50 with the landlord to the council, but no one will supply his contact details to me and I don’t know his name. 

I feel though that as the noise is getting up to 70dbs it’s going to take more then a carpet 

The last vendor moved because of the noise…unfortunately I didn’t know this at the time nor did she have to declare it

It sounds like a very stressful and horrid situation!   Did your solicitor write to the landlord?  Or was the tenant saying that landlord doesn’t want to know?  Does the tenant rent direct from the landlord or through a letting agent?  Can you download the title deeds from land registry for £7.  That will at least give you the registered owners name.  Might help you forward a little? (May involve a little detective work and not sure it will exactly help).  Just a thought.  Totally agree with contacting your councillor. 

LoopyLoops said:

littlemissbliss said:

Baldytyke88 said:

littlemissbliss said:

There should be a law on this, it’s not right that certain people are protected while others have to suffer. I have no option left to me but to spend a fortune, whichever way you look at it - when it would be so much easier if the person above was just considerate. 

If anyone has more suggestions do let me know. 

I think very few will have experience of living in a flat. My daughter came to live with me and installed wood flooring in her bedroom, so it's now very noisy. But none of the neighbours complained. It would be cheaper to pay for the flat above to have thick carpets than mess with your ceiling. Some flats in my area are for those over 55s only.

Noise is very subjective, maybe the noise didn't bother the last owners.

Unfortunately the landlord is not willing to get involved. He says it’s nothing to do with him. I have already suggested going 50/50 with the landlord to the council, but no one will supply his contact details to me and I don’t know his name. 

I feel though that as the noise is getting up to 70dbs it’s going to take more then a carpet 

The last vendor moved because of the noise…unfortunately I didn’t know this at the time nor did she have to declare it

It sounds like a very stressful and horrid situation!   Did your solicitor write to the landlord?  Or was the tenant saying that landlord doesn’t want to know?  Does the tenant rent direct from the landlord or through a letting agent?  Can you download the title deeds from land registry for £7.  That will at least give you the registered owners name.  Might help you forward a little? (May involve a little detective work and not sure it will exactly help).  Just a thought.  Totally agree with contacting your councillor. 

It very much is. It’s made me quite ill and I have anxiety disorder on top. There are times I have to temporarily move out and stay with my parents because it’s effecting my health. 

My solicitor indeed did write to the landlord. It’s a housing association, and their solicitor basically blamed me and told my solicitor to get stuffed. The landlord isn’t liable and that is that. 

My solicitor also wrote to the tenant. The tenant ignored the letter.

he also wrote to the council - the council just gaslit me and said I didn’t seem that fussed to sort the issue out. Reallly? 

To be honest I was furious.

is there a link I can download the deeds from? I’ll take a look

littlemissbliss

anselld said:

The Landlord is probably going to be fruitless.  As said above it is the Council who hold the enforcement powers.  The Landlord might have the nuclear option of a section 21 (for the time being at least) but is unlikely to want to evict an otherwise good tenant.

When you say the council hold enforcement powers, what do you mean? As they told me they can only issue fines and penalties. 

The landlord won’t do anything. My mum
is a private landlord and wouldn’t dream on behaving like that.