State pension forecast query

Sarahspangles

la531983 said:

I assumed it was basic knowledge that getting to max contributions doesn't mean you are suddenly exempt from paying NI if still under SPA and still working, maybe I'm giving people too much credit.

Oh man, it’s just occurred to me that the next generation who have to contribute for exactly 35 years are going to get to that point in 2051 and think they no longer have to contribute….l

RoysV

Sarahspangles said:

la531983 said:

I assumed it was basic knowledge that getting to max contributions doesn't mean you are suddenly exempt from paying NI if still under SPA and still working, maybe I'm giving people too much credit.

Oh man, it’s just occurred to me that the next generation who have to contribute for exactly 35 years are going to get to that point in 2051 and think they no longer have to contribute….l

Yes that may well be the case but just to be clear that wasn't what I thought at all. It's the change in the wording, as @molerat has stated far better than me, that threw me.

Sarahspangles

Yes the new wording is terrible - it’s clearer for those who still need more years’ comtributions, but misleading for those who don’t. I’ve already qualified for a full State Pension, but looking at the State Pension forecast page that’s no longer clear. I have a full ‘progress bar’ but there’s no means of knowing that someone else will see an incomplete progress bar. And ‘ You cannot increase your State Pension forecast.“ no longer has the context that I have already achieved that!

I’m sure HMRC have UI and UX expertise in their IT teams, unclear why they are generating such a poor experience.

german_keeper

As a CS lifer for 40 years I have always found myself trying to defend this type of thing and offer an alternative explanation. In the first few years of tax credits I got involved a little bit in the fine tuning of the wording on the renewal form. First couple of years was probably a bit more than fine tuning to be honest. But when we didn't get it quite right it was usually understandable, especially with a bit of hindsight. 

But even for me this one is an absolute shocker. It's difficult to understand the thinking behind this, and certainly how it wasn't picked up in the development process. The only thing I can think of, based on what I saw towards the end of my career, is that the people involved have been highly qualified and experienced in project work, but lacking in technical knowledge. 

Hoenir

german_keeper said:

As a CS lifer for 40 years I have always found myself trying to defend this type of thing and offer an alternative explanation. In the first few years of tax credits I got involved a little bit in the fine tuning of the wording on the renewal form. First couple of years was probably a bit more than fine tuning to be honest. But when we didn't get it quite right it was usually understandable, especially with a bit of hindsight. 

But even for me this one is an absolute shocker. It's difficult to understand the thinking behind this, and certainly how it wasn't picked up in the development process. The only thing I can think of, based on what I saw towards the end of my career, is that the people involved have been highly qualified and experienced in project work, but lacking in technical knowledge. 

Probably because when you reach SRA you stop paying NIC. The layout will highlight any shortfall even if a person works until SRA. We are still in the transitional phase from when all employees (i.e. those in DB pension schemes) became liable for full rate Employees National Insurance. 

RoysV

Sarahspangles said:

Yes the new wording is terrible - it’s clearer for those who still need more years’ comtributions, but misleading for those who don’t. I’ve already qualified for a full State Pension, but looking at the State Pension forecast page that’s no longer clear. I have a full ‘progress bar’ but there’s no means of knowing that someone else will see an incomplete progress bar. And ‘ You cannot increase your State Pension forecast.“ no longer has the context that I have already achieved that!

I’m sure HMRC have UI and UX expertise in their IT teams, unclear why they are generating such a poor experience.

I guess this thread proves how one person can write something down and think that explains it perfectly and someone else can read it and think it says something else. Probably just as well the forecast isn't important 

jimi_man

la531983 said:

molerat said:

la531983 said:

RoysV said:

la531983 said:

Yes you have misunderstood, it means you still need to pay NI until 2034 when presumably you reach pension age and will not longer need to, just like the rest of the population.

Nothing to do with your forecast

I haven't worked for 2 years now, so are you saying I need to get another job?

No !!!!!

Its saying if you did you would still pay NI (assuming you met the weekly/monthly threshold), along with the rest of the population, until you reach state pension age!

Reaching the 35 years (or whatever) of contribuitions doesnt mean you avoid NI until SPA if you are still working and meet the threshold.

But the new forecast doesn't make that clear, it states you will get £xxx.xx if you contribute until 5 April xxxx.  It does not make it clear that not contributing will have the same effect, it does not make it clear that you already are at that point.

I assumed it was basic knowledge that getting to max contributions doesn't mean you are suddenly exempt from paying NI if still under SPA and still working, maybe I'm giving people too much credit.

OP, i am in my early 40s, by the time i reach 53 I will have made my maximum of 35 years contributions yet my employer will still take NI from my salary as I dont intend to give up work at 53. Maybe this is a better way of explaining it 

If you're in in your early 40s then presumably you started work before 2016? In which case you'll be on both the old system and the new system and so might need more or less than 35 years. 35 years may not be a maximum for you. 

BikingBud

RoysV said:

la531983 said:

molerat said:

la531983 said:

RoysV said:

la531983 said:

Yes you have misunderstood, it means you still need to pay NI until 2034 when presumably you reach pension age and will not longer need to, just like the rest of the population.

Nothing to do with your forecast

I haven't worked for 2 years now, so are you saying I need to get another job?

No !!!!!

Its saying if you did you would still pay NI (assuming you met the weekly/monthly threshold), along with the rest of the population, until you reach state pension age!

Reaching the 35 years (or whatever) of contribuitions doesnt mean you avoid NI until SPA if you are still working and meet the threshold.

But the new forecast doesn't make that clear, it states you will get £xxx.xx if you contribute until 5 April xxxx.  It does not make it clear that not contributing will have the same effect, it does not make it clear that you already are at that point.

I assumed it was basic knowledge that getting to max contributions doesn't mean you are suddenly exempt from paying NI if still under SPA and still working, maybe I'm giving people too much credit.

OP, i am in my early 40s, by the time i reach 53 I will have made my maximum of 35 years contributions yet my employer will still take NI from my salary as I dont intend to give up work at 53. Maybe this is a better way of explaining it 

Yes I completely understand that. It was the wording on the new version saying  "Forecast if you contribute National Insurance until 2033" that had me wondering. Surely you can see that's a tad ambiguous? 

I would offer it is delberately misleading.

If you have enough accrued state pension then taking into account other options you might decide to retire. The new wording does not inform that. It implies that you need to continue paying NI and as you are now continuing to work then it is most likely you are continuing to provide a PAYE stream.

Whilst that might be beneficial for the Chancellor it does not accommodate individuals wider aspirations.

molerat

Posted on another thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81292077/#Comment_81292077

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-14397263/Savers-state-pension-confusing-forecasts.html

dinosaur66

i just looked up my own state pension forecast on HMRC because of the thread

and the fact me and op are a month apart in age

i can see OP will get £20 more than me/  mine states maximum £221.20

is this to do what jobs we all do and how much national insurance class 2 we all pay ?

i am 42 years self employed so pay a pittance in class 2