Power of Attorney

Manik

Could someone please help.

My mother (76 year old) is looking to transfer her pension from overseas back to Britain as she is planning on living here with her family.

However, given that most of this country seems to work on electronic banking system since she left about 11 years ago, to collect her pension no would require her to open an account in order to have her pension paid into it.

Unfortunately, she has neve opened a bank account in her life and therefore has instead asked me to manage her pension on her behalf. However, in order to do this legally, she would need to complete either a General Power of Attorney or an Enduring Piwer of Attorney giving her consent to me.

Not a problem..except she's illiterate. Which means not only will she be not able to open an account but will also not be able to sign the POA form.

My question is, if she were to use her finger prints mark (like they do in police stations) will that be legally acceptable as a form of 'signature'?

The completion of the POA requires witnesses anyway, will using finger prints require additional witnesses?

Please advise.

Bossyboots

I think it highly unlikely you will be allowed to do this. Most people who are illiterate have some form of signing their name. Your safest bet is to draw up the POA and have it witnessed by a solicitor, making sure your mother takes ID with her when she signs. The POA will then need to be read to her before she makes her mark on the paper and the solicitor can then sign as well. This gives you a back up against anyone in the future questioning the validity of the document which you are otherwise going to come up against time and again if you do it differently.

Most establishments recognise the problems of illiteracy and you may not find it as hard to open an account for her as you think.

Manik

Thanks for the comments Bossyboots.

Getting her to put her mark in front of a Solicitor would be no problem as long as that is accepted.

With regards to this being challenged in the future - normally this tends to occur from family members, i can appreciate your advise in getting it done in front of a solicitor, but i was also thinking of having one of my two siblings as a further witness. She was also given the option to become the POA holder but declined. I'm sure she will not have a problem in being one of the witnesses as she can see need for a POA for our mother.

Manik

Bossyboots

What has just occured to me is that you say she is going to be living here from overseas? If I have understood that correctly, they she must have a passport which presumably has some form of signature in it.

That would be the signature she would need to use on the POA. Solicitors should be used to people using a personal mark so that should be no problem.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a challenge from family, but difficulties with authorities accepting that the POA was signed by your mother as her mark is likely to be different to a standard signature. Having it witnessed in front of a solicitor gives you a back up as the solicitor should have checked all was in order with her ID before witnessing it.

nemo183

Although I don't want to confuse things, you may want to think a bit before taking either power of attorney or enduring power of attorney. Although completing the paperwork for Enduring Power is always a sensible option - should you eventually need it, as long as your mother is capable of making rational choices, the fact that she is either unable to read or write should not automatically make you choose to accept either power, if you can avoid it.

If at all possible, I would personally make every effort to open an on-line account with her. She can than allow you to "help" log on, and make what ever transactions she pleases with perhaps your assistance. She can also apply for a cash withdrawal card and PIN number.

If you accept power of attorney, without having full knowledge of all her financial affairs, you may at some point be held responsible for any mistakes she has made.

Finally, and more sadly, if she has any appreciable assets and dies leaving you with power of attorney of any kind, and you are left money in her will, you can be sure of very close examination when obtaining probate.

System

If you accept power of attorney, without having full knowledge of all her financial affairs, you may at some point be held responsible for any mistakes she has made.

Are you sure thats right? I was given POA for my elderly mother 2 years ago, however she is managing her finances herself. She is 76 and gave me the powers to take over if she became mentally incapable, however, i dont think she declares everything. I certainly dont want to get the rap for any of her dealings. I was told, only the dealings i had i would be liable for if i make a mistake.

margaretclare

Manik wrote:

However, given that most of this country seems to work on electronic banking system since she left about 11 years ago, to collect her pension no would require her to open an account in order to have her pension paid into it.

Unfortunately, she has never opened a bank account in her life and therefore has instead asked me to manage her pension on her behalf. However, in order to do this legally, she would need to complete either a General Power of Attorney or an Enduring Piwer of Attorney giving her consent to me.

Not a problem..except she's illiterate. Which means not only will she be not able to open an account but will also not be able to sign the POA

You seem to be implying that the earlier system of weekly pension books was preferable to 'direct payment' into bank accounts that we have now.

How, in that case, would she have signed the pension book foil every week to receive payment of pension over the counter?

Aunty Margaret

nemo183

Judi wrote:

Are you sure thats right? I was given POA for my elderly mother 2 years ago, however she is managing her finances herself. She is 76 and gave me the powers to take over if she became mentally incapable, however, i dont think she declares everything. I certainly dont want to get the rap for any of her dealings. I was told, only the dealings i had i would be liable for if i make a mistake.

Hi Judi.

I should have been more specific. Worst case senario is that if you are an executor of her estate, and she has not declared assets that you later uncover (ie maybe some shares which meant she was not entitled to, say, pension credit) the probate department will contact the DWP, who in turn will pursue the estate for a refund of any excess benefits paid. If, by the time they find this out, you have distributed the estate, you may well be liable as executor for repaying the money. Remarkably, this is one area of goverment/the tax system which appears to be particulary "joined up"

Please note, this is true with or without power of attorney. My personal experience is that if you have power of attorney, and are an executor of the will and benefit from it, the probate dept take a particular interest in the fine detail of the estate.

This is why I would try and avoid actually assuming enduring power of attorney until I had to.

Hope this clears up my previous post which was a bit clumsy.....

System

Hope this clears up my previous post which was a bit clumsy.....

Clumsy maybe, but has given me plenty to think about, thanks.

I wish i had time to think about it before i was given the enduring power of attorney to sign. However, maybe its a good thing that i dont actually benefit from my mothers will.

nemo183

Judi,

Although you have signed the EPofE form, have you actually applied to the court to "activate" the power?

It's OK for all parties to sign the form, but it does not give you any actual power until you apply to the courts for it to take effect.

Otherwise, how about opening a normal bank account that allows either you or your mother to sign checks on her account?

Celtic

Does anyone know where you can download power of attorney forms for free online ?