Gazundering because the vendor has cost me money with their uselessness?

[Deleted User]

Normally, theres no way in a million years I'd do this.... BUT the seller has been a nightmare.

- Went off grid for 4 weeks over Xmas. No-one could contact them at all - in the end their estate agent had to go knock on their door. Excuse for not calling back after about 50 messages left - "I'm not very good with my phone"

- Arranged a survey. Turned up no-one home. Excuse - "Aw forgot". Nearly had to pay the surveyor twice for his wasted time but managed to talk nicely.

- Latest just as we are about to exchange contracts we find theres a charge on the house due to a CCJ that they've not sorted. Excuse - "Forgot to sort that out".

Our house sale has taken longer than we thought, no their fault but they're uselessness is costing us money. Storage fees for the stuff we put in storage, extra travel because we already moved our son to new school so got to drive every day. Not to mention all the stress.

I know they've GOT TO move due to financial problems (not a surprise there!). So if we pulled out they'd be screwed.

They're getting a fair price for the house. I'm seriously considering (or at least threatening to focus attention) telling them the offer is £2K less now because of the way they've caused so much hassle.

Possibly a bit unfair taking advantage like this knowing they're up against it BUT, and I know you can't force people to step and do things properly, but I've had enough now. I've asked our solicitor to please ask them nicely to get things sorted (which they promised) but its made no difference at all.

Like I said normally I think its a really bad thing to gazunder someone like this.....

silvercar

Never make threats you aren't prepared to carry out.

I think reducing the price by X if they haven't exchanged by say end of February would be more reasonable. At least you have notified them in advance, so the ball is in their court. You can explain it is because of ongoing costs due to their slowness, rather than anything unethical.

I don't know what percentage £2k would be of the price, so don't know how reasonable it would be.

RHemmings

silvercar said:

Never make threats you aren't prepared to carry out.

I think reducing the price by X if they haven't exchanged by say end of February would be more reasonable. At least you have notified them in advance, so the ball is in their court. You can explain it is because of ongoing costs due to their slowness, rather than anything unethical.

I don't know what percentage £2k would be of the price, so don't know how reasonable it would be.

I like the warning them in advance strategy. It doesn't compensate the OP for what has gone before, but it should give them more focus. And, if the conditions aren't met, the OP shouldn't feel guilty about following through. 

But, no matter what the situation, there's always a chance that they tell the OP to stick it. People do not like being gazundered or gazumped. 

pinkshoes

Buying/Selling takes time. Be patient...

Put yourself in their shoes. They have financial problems, a CCJ, and they're losing their home. They're probably in this position as they are good at burying their head in the sand and not sorting things out, and have terrible money management skills. 

They can't sort the CCJ out as it has already been sorted; they couldn't pay so the charge was placed on the house instead. This will be cleared once the house is sold. It is only a problem if the price they're getting for the house doesn't cover the mortgage AND the debt. Does it? Get your solicitor to check this.

So by all means to threaten gazundering - give them a deadline by when you want to exchange/complete and what will happen if you don't, but also be prepared for them not to be able to afford a £2k price drop and to potentially put the house back on the market again. After all, they probably want to stay as long as possible given it will be difficult renting with such a poor credit rating!

Flugelhorn

pinkshoes said:

Put yourself in their shoes. They have financial problems, a CCJ, and they're losing their home. They're probably in this position as they are good at burying their head in the sand and not sorting things out, and have terrible money management skills. 

I would also be a bit concerned that they are actually trying to keep the house and may be trying to sort some other deal 

EssexHebridean

From past experience, I'd guess that yes, they have to move, but no, they don't want to - and so they are stringing things out in order to try to delay things. There weren't by any chance a couple of previous sales that fells through were there? if so, then that is also a red flag to me - and it might well indicate that they are indeed trying to shape things so that you pull out as well. Yes - it *could* just be disorganisation, but having been through exactly this situation when we tried to buy our first home (thankfully we realised what was going on and essentially called their bluff at every stage - and eventually they had to give in and agree dates) I'm not sure I'd be willing to end up in the same situation again. As Flugelhorn says - it could also be that they are trying to arrange some other sort of "escape clause" in which case it could be them pulling out on you, down the line. 

It's a tricky one - as said, ultimatums should always be something that you are prepared to follow through - otherwise they lose any form of power, but you do also need to be aware that any sort of ultimatum in this situation could be a high-stakes strategy. 

I would also be gently questioning my solicitor why the business of the charge only became apparent at this late stage - has it been added since the copy of the title you should have been sent at the beginning of the matter? 

saajan_12

Where's the threat in telling them you're lowering the offer.. the mistakes of the past are in the past, so all they can do is say yes and continue (slowly) or say no. It only makes sense if there's an "or what". 
Do this by xyz date OR we'll drop by £2k. 
Be ready to exchange by Y date or we'll pull out. 
etc

Taking a step back, how long has it actually been? They may be desperate to sell, but you'll also lose out in time and buying costs if you have to start again, so they may well call your bluff. Also their attitude with everything so far seems to be to bury their head (eg the CCJ) so a threat may not actually work and may slow things further. 

BikingBud

[Deleted User] said:

Normally, theres no way in a million years I'd do this.... BUT the seller has been a nightmare.

- Went off grid for 4 weeks over Xmas. No-one could contact them at all - in the end their estate agent had to go knock on their door. Excuse for not calling back after about 50 messages left - "I'm not very good with my phone"

- Arranged a survey. Turned up no-one home. Excuse - "Aw forgot". Nearly had to pay the surveyor twice for his wasted time but managed to talk nicely.

- Latest just as we are about to exchange contracts we find theres a charge on the house due to a CCJ that they've not sorted. Excuse - "Forgot to sort that out".

Our house sale has taken longer than we thought, no their fault but they're uselessness is costing us money. Storage fees for the stuff we put in storage, extra travel because we already moved our son to new school so got to drive every day. Not to mention all the stress.

I know they've GOT TO move due to financial problems (not a surprise there!). So if we pulled out they'd be screwed.

They're getting a fair price for the house. I'm seriously considering (or at least threatening to focus attention) telling them the offer is £2K less now because of the way they've caused so much hassle.

Possibly a bit unfair taking advantage like this knowing they're up against it BUT, and I know you can't force people to step and do things properly, but I've had enough now. I've asked our solicitor to please ask them nicely to get things sorted (which they promised) but its made no difference at all.

Like I said normally I think its a really bad thing to gazunder someone like this.....

And is the "fair price" fair both ways? To the extent that you are getting quite a bargain?

They may not see it a fair that they are being forced to sell their home.

Perhaps the 4 week absence over Christmas was the prompt to reconsider and pull out. Now you have kind of gone beyond that and I do wonder, similar to other posters, if this is only the start of further problems.

[Deleted User]

silvercar said:

Never make threats you aren't prepared to carry out.

I think reducing the price by X if they haven't exchanged by say end of February would be more reasonable. At least you have notified them in advance, so the ball is in their court. You can explain it is because of ongoing costs due to their slowness, rather than anything unethical.

I don't know what percentage £2k would be of the price, so don't know how reasonable it would be.

£2K is about 0.5%

BikingBud

EssexHebridean said:

From past experience, I'd guess that yes, they have to move, but no, they don't want to - and so they are stringing things out in order to try to delay things. There weren't by any chance a couple of previous sales that fells through were there? if so, then that is also a red flag to me - and it might well indicate that they are indeed trying to shape things so that you pull out as well. Yes - it *could* just be disorganisation, but having been through exactly this situation when we tried to buy our first home (thankfully we realised what was going on and essentially called their bluff at every stage - and eventually they had to give in and agree dates) I'm not sure I'd be willing to end up in the same situation again. As Flugelhorn says - it could also be that they are trying to arrange some other sort of "escape clause" in which case it could be them pulling out on you, down the line. 

It's a tricky one - as said, ultimatums should always be something that you are prepared to follow through - otherwise they lose any form of power, but you do also need to be aware that any sort of ultimatum in this situation could be a high-stakes strategy. 

I would also be gently questioning my solicitor why the business of the charge only became apparent at this late stage - has it been added since the copy of the title you should have been sent at the beginning of the matter? 

Maybe another example of the value and not the cost of doing your own due diligence and getting your own copy of the title before even going to view a house. 

ReadingTim

I don't know the extent to the sellers' hands are being forced in terms of selling to you, but if you're annoyed at the amount you've spend due to their delays, then you'll spend a helluva lot more if they tell you do one after you try to pull your gazundering stunt and you're back to square one and looking for a new place to offer on....