SIP Parking Charge Notice - Leased car

Gr1pr

Its their prerogative to be able to pay any invoice as the RK, but although they may wish to try to charge you as hirer,  that depends on their hire or lease contract with you,  so you would dispute it on the grounds that you appealed it 

They have deprived you of your right to appeal it in full,  so if necessary dispute it and ask to go to BVRLA dispute resolution if they are members,  so if its deadlocked , you should not allow payment if they are charging you,  but check the paperwork closely 

In short, its their vehicle so they can pay it if they wish, but charging you is a contractual minefield,  so different issues

Ideally you should have put them on written notice that they must not pay due to you dealing with it as hirer or lessee 

PilotJames

Thanks. I wrote to them saying they could name me as the driver and pass liability to me.

Gr1pr

PilotJames said:

Thanks. I wrote to them saying they could name me as the driver and pass liability to me.

Which they presumably did, but you didn't appear to have mentioned not paying it , because they paid the NTK reminder instead of leaving it to you to deal with.   SIP Parking will be well aware of this backdoor payment method 

The dispute is now between you and the hire or lease company,  with arguments about the content of the hire or lease contract that you both signed

Coupon-mad

PilotJames said:

An update on this which has presented an unexpected twist....

The first PCN was appealed, rejected by SIP and then followed by a successful appeal through the IAS.

The second PCN was appealed in the same way, rejected by SIP and then within the stated timescales an appeal made through IAS as per the previous PCN. Three days later, however, IAS replied saying the PCN had been paid and therefore an appeal wasn't possible and the case closed.

I contacted the vehicle lessor to ask if they'd paid the PCN, and as suspected, they had. The rejected appeal from SIP came on the 25th Feb and it turns out that SIP then issued the following day, on the 26th Feb, a 'payment overdue' reminder to the keeper. Not only that but this overdue reminder demanded a payment of £115 instead of the £100 as originally stated on the parking T&Cs and PCN.

I'm not sure now how to proceed with this now. SIP didn't give the allotted time to appeal their decision, demanded an increased payment and they were also aware that I was the driver at that point. The lessor themselves have paid an amount that wasn't contractually agreed but of course by paying I guess they're accepting liability.

Any advice on who to move forward on this?

There are several posters here currently refusing to pay lease hire firms who've paid PPCs.

Please could you show the appeal rejection (sent to you, offering IAS stage) and the overdue reminder dated the day after (disingenuously adding £15 - despite the case still being in appeals stage with you - and trying to pick off a scared lease fleet team... and succeeding).

If you don't have it, please ask the lease firm for a copy of the letter they paid on and tell them you won't reimburse them for this knee-jerk error which denied you the right to appeal (which you were in the midst of) and stupidly paid an invoice which wasn't their liability any more.

DO NOT PAY THE LEASE FIRM BACK.

IF THEY TAKE THE MONEY FROM YOUR CARD, DISPUTE AND BLOCK THE PAYMENT.

Say you want to use BVRLA's ADR if the lease firm dispute the payment because this was their error. You won't be paying.

PilotJames

Thanks for the reply, I'll post the letters shortly.

Unfortunately, the money is deducted from my salary and there is no way to block it. Looks like ADR through BVRLA will be the way to go; however, I have also sent a letter of complaint to SIP as by issuing that payment reminder to the NTK the day after the appeal notice, they've denied my right to appeal to the IAS.

PilotJames

Gr1pr said:

PilotJames said:

Thanks. I wrote to them saying they could name me as the driver and pass liability to me.

Which they presumably did, but you didn't appear to have mentioned not paying it , because they paid the NTK reminder instead of leaving it to you to deal with.   SIP Parking will be well aware of this backdoor payment method 

The dispute is now between you and the hire or lease company,  with arguments about the content of the hire or lease contract that you both signed

Lessee responsibilities....
Understand that parking or congestion charges and any other fines are their responsibility and if incurred will be recharged to them along with an administration fee.

PilotJames

Appeal notice and payment reminder...

PilotJames

Having complained to the lessor, their response was that they acted in accordance with the lease agreement. I refuted that on the basis that the lease agreement conditions were unfair and that by paying the charge they settled the contract and denied my right to appeal. What's more concerning is that they also paid an amount 'demanded' by the parking firm that wasn't in the original PCN or the alleged parking T&Cs and therefore, as lessee, there appears to be no limit to my liability concerning fees demanded by private parking operators, i.e. they could have demanded £1000 and the lessor may well have paid up.

So far the parking operator has refused to respond to my claim that sending out a payment reminder a day after the appeals notice was contrary to the appeals deadline and that they demanded an inflated amount without specifying where that extra amount has arisen from (indeed, the appeals notice demands £100).

We didn't know that parking management was in force due to both inadequate and obscured signage at the site and this perception was reinforced by the fact that, until very recently, the site had been free to use. We certainly wouldn't have done the same thing two successive weeks. This seems grossly unfair and yet I seem to be stuck between a rock and hard place. The lessor, although probably acting in good faith, has been negligent in managing this properly and the parking operator almost certainly has acted disingenuously.

I'm not sure how best to proceed other than to complain to the BVRLA over the lessor's management and submit a LBA to the parking operator since they didn't follow due process. 

Gr1pr

Definitely take the lessor to the BVRLA dispute resolution option 

You could issue an LoC to the parking company,  but it wont halt the juggernaut , they are very used to litigation 

Coupon-mad

But SIP won't sue because the lease firm already paid them £115.

Two things to do:

- Complain to the BVRLA showing the evidence. You're quite right. SIP could have demanded £1000 and the lease firm would have paid!  Yet you were in the midst of appealing and it was stated to be £60.

- Exhaust the complaint with SIP first then report this conduct to the IPC and make a complaint about SIP. Should be interesting to see the IPC defend this sharp practice!