TENANTS IN COMMON versus JOINT TENNANTS

webtalk

Could someone please explain the difference to me in a truely idiot-proof way.

These options were definitely not explained to us when husband and I bought our house.

And could you explain the implications if:

1. one partner has to go into a home
2. the partner dies without a will
3. the partner dies with a will and leaves his/her entire estate to someone else
4. one partner gets into bad debt and repossessions and things start happening
5. anything else that may be pertinent that I can't think of.

Also, where would I find out the circumstances under which a house was bought?

As you can see this entire process is confusing me big time :eek:

Thanks for your help :T

WT

Debt_Free_Chick

webtalk wrote: »

Could someone please explain the difference to me in a truely idiot-proof way.

These options were definitely not explained to us when husband and I bought our house.

And could you explain the implications if:
1. one partner has to go into a home

No effect. You both still own your share of the value of the property.

2. the partner dies without a will

If you are joint tenants, the other partner inherits the deceased's share of the property.

If you are tenants in common, the deceased's share goes to his/her estate. With no will, the estate will be dealt with via the rules of intestacy. Basically, the estate goes to next of kin which would almost certainly be the spouse, if you are married.

3. the partner dies with a will and leaves his/her entire estate to someone else

If you are joint tenants, the deceased's share of the property goes to the other partner.

If you are TIC, the deceased's share goes to the estate and then to the "someone else" named in the will.

4. one partner gets into bad debt and repossessions and things start happening

No difference as to what might happen. If a charge is to be placed on the debtor, then it can only be applied to the debtor's share of the property.

If there's a joint mortgage and that falls into arrears - if the property is ultimately repossessed, then both parties are affected. The JT/TIC situation makes no difference here. The only way to avoid repossession is to keep up the repayments on any debts secured on the property.

5. anything else that may be pertinent that I can't think of.

I think you've covered the main things. The position of a JT or TIC is the same really, until death. Until then, you jointly own the property.

The only difference is what happens to the deceased's share on death. With a JT, it passes to the other party. With a TIC, it goes to the deceased's estate, to be dealt with according to the will.

TIC is often used as part of inheritance tax (IHT) planning, but the arguments for a married couple doing that are not so strong, with the changes coming in from April. I would have thought you'd have known if you have/could have IHT issues. Likely it would involve more than just the property and you would almost certainly have had wills drawn up too.

Also, where would I find out the circumstances under which a house was bought?

As you can see this entire process is confusing me big time :eek:

Thanks for your help :T

WT

Have a look at any papers filed with the deeds or see what's on the title filed at the Land Registry.

HTH

Biggles

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Have a look at any papers filed with the deeds or see what's on the title filed at the Land Registry.

None of the papers with the deeds seem to mention this subject (I assumed the conveyance would have been the most likely one), and the copy of the Land Registry's entry merely names the two of us as 'Proprietor'.

webtalk

margaretclare wrote: »

Debt_Free_Chick has explained this really well. Just a little bit from me:Margaret

She certainly has. :T And so have you. Thank you.:T

Now all I need to do is find the itsy bit of paper that gives the vital information.:eek:

EdInvestor

webtalk wrote: »

And could you explain the implications if:

1. one partner has to go into a home

The local authority cannot "take the home" to pay for care while a partner/spouse is living in it. However if the home is owned as joint tenants, and then the spouse not in the care home died and the house was then 100% owned by the person in care, then the LA could take it to meet the costs.

With tenants in common ownership, the LA cannot take the home while the spouse is still alive and if either spouse died, leaving his/her half to their children (say) the LA still couldn't take the house as you can't sell half a house.So TIC is usually best if there is a possiblity of care being required.

the partner dies without a will

In this case ownership will almost certainly be joint tenants, so the house will go automatically to the partner (not in the estate).

the partner dies with a will and leaves his/her entire estate to someone else

If joint tenancy, the house will go to the partner, and is not in the estate and thus not covered by the will.If TIC, half of property will be be in the will and be left to whoever he decides.Other half remains with spouse.This can cause problems for the surviving spouse and tax problems for the other beneficiaries later..

one partner gets into bad debt and repossessions and things start happening

]

Not sure about this, try the debt board.

Also, where would I find out the circumstances under which a house was bought?

Ask your solicitor who did the conveyancing on the sale.It's likely to be joint tenancy if you don't know about it: TIC has only recently become an option for ordinary people.It's mainly been used by the well off to avoid inheritance tax in the past.

Biggles

EdInvestor wrote: »

Ask your solicitor who did the conveyancing on the sale. It's likely to be joint tenancy if you don't know about it: TIC has only recently become an option for ordinary people.It's mainly been used by the well off to avoid inheritance tax in the past.

Surely it has to be recorded somewhere, Ed?

I've got the deeds, I've got a copy of the LR registration, nothing seems to mention it. I remember the solicitor discussing the matter with us at the time, but that was 25 years ago now and I can't remember which option he advised (nor will he)!

Debt_Free_Chick

Biggles wrote: »

Surely it has to be recorded somewhere, Ed?

I've got the deeds, I've got a copy of the LR registration, nothing seems to mention it. I remember the solicitor discussing the matter with us at the time, but that was 25 years ago now and I can't remember which option he advised (nor will he)!

Can you look at the LR form again, as the current form specifically asks how the property is to be held (see part 12 on page 2).

Nothing similar on your form?

Debt_Free_Chick

From this website

If you are TIC, then the following appears on the title deeds

"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court".

Biggles

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

From this website

If you are TIC, then the following appears on the title deeds

"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court".

So it's sort of 'notification by omission', then. That wording doesn't appear, so it means we are, in the words of the Lawontheweb site, 'almost certainly joint tenants'. Now we're only left to wonder what 'almost certainly' means ;-)

Biggles

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Can you look at the LR form again, as the current form specifically asks how the property is to be held (see part 12 on page 2).

Nothing similar on your form?

We don't have the form, of course, as that, or something similar, is what was filled in and sent to LR by whoever registered our property - which was the building society on remortgaging a few years ago. Which begs the question - how did they know?

All we have is a printout of the registered title.

Debt_Free_Chick

Biggles wrote: »

We don't have the form, of course, as that, or something similar, is what was filled in and sent to LR by whoever registered our property - which was the building society on remortgaging a few years ago. Which begs the question - how did they know?

All we have is a printout of the registered title.

My interpretation is that if you had bought as TIC then the words quoted would be on the title.

Why not call the LR and see what they say?

I think that the term "almost certainly" you are joint tenants, leaves some doubt as there might be a separate legal document stipulating something else.

I think you would know whether this applied or not e.g. if one of you held part of the property in trust for someone else.

If it were me, I'd be content we held the property as joint tenants. But if you're not convinced, you would probably have to see a solicitor.