Checking savings interest reported to HMRC

intalex

The fear is always to overlook something on own records, and a simple check on HMRC list would help reduce (but not eradicate) that risk...

money4sb

eskbanker said:

money4sb said:

eskbanker said:

money4sb said:

Is the onus on the person to put their hand up and say.....'I think I still owe you money'  or...........?

Yes, it's the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure that the correct amount of tax is paid.

I think that HMRC should have a way of tabulating the interest such that each person might be able to see how it's calculated from their savings. 

As things stand very few people will go through all of their statements and online accounts to see if the accumulated interest matches what HMRC think it should be.

In my wife's case, she has interest from about 7 different banks and about 10 different accounts all together.  It's virtually impossible for me to work out which accounts that HMRC missed to come up with their final figure.

I'm not minded to write to them for a breakdown. From what I gather it takes them an eternity to get back to you.

I'm sure most people will be similarly minded.  

However, if each bit of interest was printed on their form (from which account and bank), then people might be encouraged then to put their hands up and say.... "Ahh....You've missed the interest from BanksRUs".

Just my thoughts anyway.

I'm sure you're not the only one thinking the same way but you're extrapolating to some generalisations there, to rationalise your stance!

Would it make life easier if HMRC shared more information more readily? Yes.

Does that change the taxpayer responsibility to pay the correct amount of tax? No.

I dont particularly have a stance tbh  

But I'm sure most people will just look at the interest figure given by HMRC and think....
"OK, I'm sure you're right. I won't look into to see if it's correct because I don't have the time or patience and I can't find the figures within the online statments anyway".

Bottom line though is that....HMRC will generally miss some interest and will be poorer as a result.

BooJewels

money4sb said:

eskbanker said:

money4sb said:

Is the onus on the person to put their hand up and say.....'I think I still owe you money'  or...........?

Yes, it's the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure that the correct amount of tax is paid.

[snip]
As things stand very few people will go through all of their statements and online accounts to see if the accumulated interest matches what HMRC think it should be.
[snip]

I'm obviously one of the 'very few' then - and I suspect many attending this forum will be too - if your comments have any basis in reality.

I could tell you at any time exactly how much interest I've received, by month, calendar year, tax year, or account (and I have a lot more than your wife).  I keep a record as I go along (almost all pay monthly) and when I prepare to submit my tax return (I'm self employed) I paste all my tax year details into an HMRC specific spreadsheet page and total each account, then verify it against the annual statements I saved when they were made available.

I'm pretty gutted that my running total as I go along, differed from my verified by account figures, by a penny this year.  Considering that I sum them all from the same original cell entries, it shouldn't even be possible.  It's irrelevant to my tax return, but feels like a blot on my personal copy book.

I know for absolute certain that my numbers are spot on - if HMRC have different numbers, then the error will be with them - or the organisations that informed them, or failed to do so.  I've submitted interest figures for 4 tax years now and never heard anything whatsoever back from them, so I can only assume that they're happy enough to accept my numbers - especially as I fall within allowances and no tax is actually due.  Presumably, if an organisation failed to advise them about a particular account, then their numbers will be smaller than mine, so they'll not query it.

Pat38493

money4sb said:

eskbanker said:

money4sb said:

eskbanker said:

money4sb said:

Is the onus on the person to put their hand up and say.....'I think I still owe you money'  or...........?

Yes, it's the taxpayer's responsibility to ensure that the correct amount of tax is paid.

I think that HMRC should have a way of tabulating the interest such that each person might be able to see how it's calculated from their savings. 

As things stand very few people will go through all of their statements and online accounts to see if the accumulated interest matches what HMRC think it should be.

In my wife's case, she has interest from about 7 different banks and about 10 different accounts all together.  It's virtually impossible for me to work out which accounts that HMRC missed to come up with their final figure.

I'm not minded to write to them for a breakdown. From what I gather it takes them an eternity to get back to you.

I'm sure most people will be similarly minded.  

However, if each bit of interest was printed on their form (from which account and bank), then people might be encouraged then to put their hands up and say.... "Ahh....You've missed the interest from BanksRUs".

Just my thoughts anyway.

I'm sure you're not the only one thinking the same way but you're extrapolating to some generalisations there, to rationalise your stance!

Would it make life easier if HMRC shared more information more readily? Yes.

Does that change the taxpayer responsibility to pay the correct amount of tax? No.

I dont particularly have a stance tbh  

But I'm sure most people will just look at the interest figure given by HMRC and think....
"OK, I'm sure you're right. I won't look into to see if it's correct becasue I don't have the time or patience and I can't find the figures within the online statments anyway".

Bottom line though is that....HMRC will generally miss some interest and will be poorer as a result.

I guess that is the interesting point - if something is missed, is HMRC likely to detect it at a later date, or has the taxpayer most likely “got away with it” albeit perhaps unknowingly?  If an institution does not report to HMRC, and the taxpayer does not come to the attention of HMRC for any other reason or get some kind of random audit, the issue might never be identified.

Further, if HMRC has pages on their website that say they are collecting this information automatically from banks, would they win in court if they fined somebody for not triple checking all this information and it was challenged?

Of course it also goes both ways - if the taxpayer is not checking the information they might get overcharged tax due to a mistake.

money4sb

I'm obviously one of the 'very few' then - and I suspect many attending this forum will be too - if your comments have any basis in reality.

I could tell you at any time exactly how much interest I've received, by month, calendar year, tax year, or account (and I have a lot more than your wife).  I keep a record as I go along (almost all pay monthly) and when I prepare to submit my tax return (I'm self employed) I paste all my tax year details into an HMRC specific spreadsheet page and total each account, then verify it against the annual statements I saved when they were made available.

99% of people won't go near forums such as this. They don't have the time, interest or inclination.

Most just want to know if they owe anything when any tax type email or letter lands.

You're very much one of the very few who diligently log anything at all as you go along, in my humble opinion.

'Most people', dont forget, have no clue how to do a Spreadsheet nor do they wish to know.

Don't forget that a huge proportion of the people with significant interest from their savings aren't obliged to fill in a tax return so their first sight of what interest they supposedly earned last tax year is when the tax man tells them in an email.  At that point, they'll generally accept what's said unless of course its a huge underpayment (bill) that they can't fathom.  At which point they's pick up the phone and dial HMRC.

wmb194

money4sb said:

I'm obviously one of the 'very few' then - and I suspect many attending this forum will be too - if your comments have any basis in reality.

I could tell you at any time exactly how much interest I've received, by month, calendar year, tax year, or account (and I have a lot more than your wife).  I keep a record as I go along (almost all pay monthly) and when I prepare to submit my tax return (I'm self employed) I paste all my tax year details into an HMRC specific spreadsheet page and total each account, then verify it against the annual statements I saved when they were made available.

99% of people won't go near forums such as this. They don't have the time, interest or inclination.

Most just want to know if they owe anything when any tax type email or letter lands.

You're very much one of the very few who diligently log anything at all as you go along, in my humble opinion.

'Most people', dont forget, have no clue how to do a Spreadsheet nor do they wish to know.

Don't forget that a huge proportion of the people with significant interest from their savings aren't obliged to fill in a tax return so their first sight of what interest they supposedly earned last tax year is when the tax man tells them in an email.  At that point, they'll generally accept what's said unless of course its a huge underpayment (bill) that they can't fathom.  At which point they's pick up the phone and dial HMRC.

'Most people' have hardly any accounts so double checking should be easy. Checking 10 shouldn't take long.

BooJewels

money4sb said:

I'm obviously one of the 'very few' then - and I suspect many attending this forum will be too - if your comments have any basis in reality.

I could tell you at any time exactly how much interest I've received, by month, calendar year, tax year, or account (and I have a lot more than your wife).  I keep a record as I go along (almost all pay monthly) and when I prepare to submit my tax return (I'm self employed) I paste all my tax year details into an HMRC specific spreadsheet page and total each account, then verify it against the annual statements I saved when they were made available.

99% of people won't go near forums such as this. They don't have the time, interest or inclination.

Most just want to know if they owe anything when any tax type email or letter lands.

You're very much one of the very few who diligently log anything at all as you go along, in my humble opinion.

'Most people', dont forget, have no clue how to do a Spreadsheet nor do they wish to know.

Don't forget that a huge proportion of the people with significant interest from their savings aren't obliged to fill in a tax return so their first sight of what interest they supposedly earned last tax year is when the tax man tells them in an email.  At that point, they'll generally accept what's said unless of course its a huge underpayment (bill) that they can't fathom.  At which point they's pick up the phone and dial HMRC.

Even if all of that were true - but I perhaps dispute the degree (I don't think people are quite as uncaring or reckless as you suggest) - do people not want to know how many pennies they have to spend each month, year or whatever.  I certainly do.  I live to a budget and track every penny I spend too.  No one else is going to do it for me, or bail me out if I get it wrong.  We all have to take some responsibility for such matters - it comes with being a grown up.

masonic

money4sb said:
I'm not minded to write to them for a breakdown. From what I gather it takes them an eternity to get back to you.

I'm sure most people will be similarly minded.  

I'm not minded to write to them for a breakdown either.

I calculate it myself. In this way I know it has been done properly.

Yorkie1

Just to confirm my understanding:
If I write down, for each non-ISA account, the savings interest credited from 6 Apr - 5 Apr in the statements, those will be the figures which HMRC relies upon when determining savings interest?

(Assuming that the interest was credited gross, and ignoring any complications of multi year bonds etc)?

Ceejay3000

Yes - except of course for joint accounts where only 50% of the interest is attributed to you.

Date eligibility for the calculation is on the date the interest payments are credited to the account.