SIP Parking refused appeal for incorrect PCN - Lease company (Drivalia) already paid fine - SUCCESS

helmsleyhitter

I have a unique situation (I think) where SIP Parking have issued a PCN for a car park in Bradford (Manor Row) when I paid in cash (ticketless machine arggh) and then extended via phone payment to make sure car was OK (I have a Worldpay receipt) - so clearly I appealed straight away when Drivalia notified me about it.

Problem is Drivalia (their 3rd party fines handler) have already paid the fine before telling me about it and now SIP have naturally refused the appeal because 1) they say it was issued correctly (I know it wasn't) and 2) it's been paid so "the contract has been completed by way of payment"

Lease company say that when they get the bill through from the 3rd party handler (Safo Group) they would not only pass on the charge £60 on their next invoice but their admin charge on top (£30). Robbery !

I can/will complain back to them but it might not work and I wondered what steps should be done in what order now as SIP can't get away with this can they - they should refund although I have no evidence of cash payment no1 (other than maybe camera showing me paying or machine record - can I ask for that?).
Also any lessons for other users on avoiding these things if possible?

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

Your situation is not unique. This forum is littered with threads from posters where a hire or lease company has paid a parking charge notice instead of transferring liability.

What does you hire agreement say about parking charge notices, unregulated private parking companies, paying parking charge notices from unregulated private parking companies, and adding admin' charges regarding parking charge notices from unregulated private parking companies?
What it doesn't say is equally important.
Note that parking charge notices are not fines nor penalties, and are not issued by any authority, nor are the parking companies that issue these charges regulated in any way.

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP. 


If already paid, put the charge in dispute with your financial provider, and inform the hire company that you have done so.


Your beef is no longer with the parking company but with the hire company who by paying the charge have removed your right to appeal which is an unfair contract term as defined by the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
If the hire company is a member of the BVRLA, point out that this trade association has instructed its members not to pay these charges, but to transfer liability to the hirer/lessee, and inform the hirer of the same.
By paying the charge, the hire company has admitted liability by conduct, and therefore cannot lawfully pass the charge to you.
Warn them that if the charge is taken, or not refunded, you reserve the right to recover any monies taken by instigating a court claim against them.
They need to educate themselves about how the law works, especially transfer of liability as detailed in Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012.

For future reference, never reveal the driver's identity under any circumstances. The hire company only have the details of the hirer, and have no idea who was driving at the time. It is virtually impossible for a parking company to get it right when dealing with a hired or lease vehicle.

helmsleyhitter

Thank you !

> If already paid, put the charge in dispute with your financial provider, and inform the hire company that you have done so.

I don't have a financial provider here do I - unless you you mean the lease company Drivalia who I'm leasing the car from over 4 years? I'll read their terms and will be sending them a full complaint as you've suggested that will (hopefully) avoid them adding it to my bill.
Disappointing that SIP manage to profit from these practices - plan A sounds good as well.

Le_Kirk

helmsleyhitter said:

I don't have a financial provider here do I - unless you you mean the lease company Drivalia who I'm leasing the car from over 4 years? I'll read their terms and will be sending them a full complaint as you've suggested that will (hopefully) avoid them adding it to my bill.
Disappointing that SIP manage to profit from these practices - plan A sounds good as well.

Debit card or credit card provider that your lease company took money from without your authority.

helmsleyhitter

Le_Kirk said:

helmsleyhitter said:

I don't have a financial provider here do I - unless you you mean the lease company Drivalia who I'm leasing the car from over 4 years? I'll read their terms and will be sending them a full complaint as you've suggested that will (hopefully) avoid them adding it to my bill.
Disappointing that SIP manage to profit from these practices - plan A sounds good as well.

Debit card or credit card provider that your lease company took money from without your authority.

I see - thanks - haven’t taken the additional charge yet so I’ll do the chargeback if/when that happens.

Fruitcake

You need to warn Drivalia not to take the money, and state you will put it in dispute if the do, rather than wait for them to take the money.
Then explain why as already detailed above.

Do make the complaints to the landowner and your MP.

Coupon-mad

Read the recent Arval thread and the Europcar thread. Search the forum. 2025 ones.

helmsleyhitter

Fruitcake said:

You need to warn Drivalia not to take the money, and state you will put it in dispute if the do, rather than wait for them to take the money.
Then explain why as already detailed above.

Do make the complaints to the landowner and your MP.

I have now warned Drivalia and written to my MP. Establishing the landowner is a problem - Land Registry search on the address (2-3 Grammar School St, Bradford BD1 4QD) states no information held.  

helmsleyhitter

The response from the lease company is below.

I do not believe I can appeal this charge despite what they say (parking operator had already told me it’s been settled) and so it would be for them to recover their own charges from the parking operator (with the evidence that I’m happy to give them).

Should they do this “on my behalf” (even though it’s not on my behalf) I feel they will try and levy more admin charges on me. 
Are there any examples of lease companies continuing to try and claim these fees back from hirers even when they have been told it’s unlawful to do this? What was the outcome?

>>

We would like to respond as follows to the points raised:

You pointed out that the charge was issued by a private (‘unregulated’) company, which you believed was involved in 'scamming' drivers. The guidance from the BVRLA stipulates that this type of organisation can legitimately issue fines, as the implied contractual terms set by the landowner regarding parking at this location were accepted when you parked there and hence a contract was formed. A breach of this contract can occur when the terms are not followed. The BVRLA guideline goes on to clarify that Parking Charge Notices are issued by private parking companies under the Protection of Freedoms Act to alert a customer to the fact that they have breached the contract of the landowner where they are parked. 

Secondly, the BVRLA "allows" liability to be transferred to the hirer, but this is not mandatory. There is no explicit restriction made by the BVRLA on this subject. We cannot find anything which restricts Drivalia from paying and passing the charge on to the customer, however it is possible that the BVRLA has changed their position on this now, and we invite you to provide a reference to this if this is the case.

We would also like to draw your attention to the Terms and Conditions of Hire, which were provided to you upon leasing the vehicle. The relevant section is below. Please see paragraph 10.12, which clarifies our usage of the word ‘’fine’’ as a general term which encompasses multiple penalty types.  Furthermore, in section 10.12(b), the last sentence refers to Drivalia’s right to use their discretion to pay a fine and re-charge it to the customer.  

We can ask SAFO to appeal the ticket on your behalf if you would like us to do this for you. If this is the case, please provide evidence of your payment for the full period of parking.  Alternatively you can do this directly with SIP Parking Limited with the 3rdParty Letter sent to you with the copy of the PCN on the 6th February 2025.

The recharge invoice plus the administration fee is not due to charged yet, however we will make notes on your agreement that this shall not be charged until this matter is resolved.

>>

Fruitcake

Fine and penalty are distinctly different to parking charge notices. Drivalia need to understand the difference, and learn about contract law.

Irrespective of what the BVRLA says, paying the charge to the PPC and then billing the hirer/lessee is unfair because it removes the hirer's right to appeal. If the hire/lease contract permits this action, then it is an unfair contract term and breaches the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Once the charge is paid, it cannot be appealed. 

However, I believe the last line of your above post means the hire company has shot themselves in the foot.

"The recharge invoice plus the administration fee is not due to charged yet, however we will make notes on your agreement that this shall not be charged until this matter is resolved."

If it isn't resolved, you won't have to pay. 

If you can't post an image of your contract Ts and Cs, upload it to a web hosting site such as Dropbox or similar, then post the link here. If the site won't et you post links yet, change http to hxxp, and someone here will convert it to a live link for you.

Umkomaas

BVRLA Memorandum of Understanding:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/c8hf28g1vbd48f30xxjkq/BPA-BVRLA-MoU.pdf?rlkey=dlq2lt286g73zsbgb9u6k1rbj&e=1&dl=0