Advice needed - central heating issues

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said: This may have to be a process of elimination; if, for example, turning off all the functioning rads still leaves the problem ones cold, you can effectively rule out it being a 'balancing' issue.

If the lockshield has been closed right down, opening up the TRV will have no effect. So it would be prudent to check the lockshield before stating it is a balancing issue or a blockage. And if it is a lockshield issue, turning up the pump speed and shutting off the other radiators is not going to do much.

Albermarle

Rdwill said:

Hi.

I had a similar issue.

1. Turn off all the radiators that are working using the trv.

2. Take the trv off the ones that aren't working and ensure the pin springs up when pushed down.

3. Run the heating (and pump) at full power.

This will mean that the flow in the radiator system is only sent to the non working radiators.

4. Cross fingers and wait for the non working rads to get hot.

It worked for me.

You also need to make sure the lockshield valves are open fully on the problem radiators.
( as mentioned also in the previous post I just noticed) 
Also it is not unheard of for lockshield valves to stick/be faulty, but seems unlikely on more than one radiator.

ThisIsWeird

dryjoy said

Yes it’s a pressurised system with a gauge. The new boiler is a Worcester Greenstar 8000 Life.

I don’t know how old the original installation is, but we’ve been here 11 years and I’m sure it wasn’t that new then. We did have two new rads put in shortly after we moved here - one of the problematic ones is one of the new ones, the others are not.

In saying we bled them several times, I meant we have tried bleeding the rads but no air comes out, just water - which usually looks pretty clean and clear.

If a diagram of the system and locations of the rads/the ones with the microbore would be helpful, I should be able to do that. I might have to get my wife to help me draw a diagram and post back when she’s managed to do that.

Yes we’d be up for trying taking one of the rads off to see if it’s blocked and/or test the valves etc. we discussed that yesterday and one of the problem ones is small, and it’s in the utility room so would be relatively easy to deal with any mess etc, so I think we’ll give that a go.

Thanks for the info.

Interesting that one of the rads you had added is a non-functioning one. I presume it did work when initially fitted? And, these new rads of yours are the narrower 'microbore' piping?

Could you confirm, please - these non-working rads were non-functioning before BG changed your boiler? And not since? So, it ain't down to something daft that BG did?! Cool.

And you've said that BG tried to get these rads hot, but failed? As part of that, then surely must have tried opening up the lockshield valves.

Ok, pleased you are up for some experimentation :-)

That utility rad sounds ideal. Could you post a pic of it, please, and a shot of each valve too? And then we'll guide you through how to tackle it...

ThisIsWeird

Whilst we await photos, some things to try are:

1) The TRV end. Open the TRV to '5' or 'max', and unscrew and remove its head.

2) Get a teaspoon or similar, and place it over yer thumb. With this, press down firmly on the exposed valve pin. What happens?

It should push down smoothly, with no roughness, travelling around 6-ish mm?, and bottom-out with a firm 'thunk'. When released, it should pop back up instantly, to its starting point. Do this a few times to confirm. Does it do this?

3) Go to the lockshield end. Pull off the plastic cap to expose the spindle underneath. Get a perm marker, or a wee paper flag and tape, and mark the spindle in a way that you can return it to the same position when you've finished.

4) Use a wee spanner or plier to turn the spindle clockwise until it comes to a firm stop. As you do this, count the number of turn and part-turns this takes. Write that down.

5) Open the lockshield a good 6 turns anti-clock, and with the TRV head still off, fire up the boiler, and close most of the other TRVs - to force a hot water supply to that rad. Does it warm up at all? Can you feel any warmth in either of its supply pipes?

If no heat, then:

6) Replace TRV head, and screw it down to min - that 'should' turn that valve off.

7) Ditto with the lockshield - turn it fully clockwise until it comes to a firm halt - that should ditto.

8) Open the bleed screw a good few turns, and place a wee container under it. What happens? Does it ejaculate for a few seconds and then petter down to naught? If so, cool - it likely means your valves are closed.

9) With the bleed screw still open, and your helper holding the wee container, open each valve in turn - open the TRV up to max. Does water resume squirting oot the bleed screw? If so, cool - close the TRV again, and check that the bleed screw stops bleeding.

10) Now open the l/s side and repeat.

dryjoy

daveyjp said:

OP paid BG to install a new boiler and leave the system working.  They haven't done this so all the OP should  be doing is calling BG and telling them they have failed in their duty to carry out the work they were paid to do.  Messing with the install may not be wise.

My now retired has engineer had been called to many properties with issues and quite often he'd see something had been done incorrectly at install which he fixed within minutes.

The issues with these radiators was present before the new boiler - we happened to need a new boiler and hoped flushing the system at the time of installation would sort these other problems about, but unfortunately that’s not the case. 

I think BG have mostly fulfilled what was asked of them, and they did spend some time trying to get the cold rads to work - but not loads. 

I’ve seen other threads here and elsewhere where plumbers and heating engineers seem to be saying that in some stubborn cases, they have spent 8 or more hours just doing the flush - they didn’t spend anywhere near that on ours, and that’s the one thing I’m wondering if they could/should have spent longer on. So haven’t paid the bill yet as I’m wondering if there’s a case for asking them to come back and do it again, but the other comments here don’t particularly lead me to think that’s really going to be the answer 

dryjoy

ThisIsWeird said:

dryjoy said

Yes it’s a pressurised system with a gauge. The new boiler is a Worcester Greenstar 8000 Life.

I don’t know how old the original installation is, but we’ve been here 11 years and I’m sure it wasn’t that new then. We did have two new rads put in shortly after we moved here - one of the problematic ones is one of the new ones, the others are not.

In saying we bled them several times, I meant we have tried bleeding the rads but no air comes out, just water - which usually looks pretty clean and clear.

If a diagram of the system and locations of the rads/the ones with the microbore would be helpful, I should be able to do that. I might have to get my wife to help me draw a diagram and post back when she’s managed to do that.

Yes we’d be up for trying taking one of the rads off to see if it’s blocked and/or test the valves etc. we discussed that yesterday and one of the problem ones is small, and it’s in the utility room so would be relatively easy to deal with any mess etc, so I think we’ll give that a go.

Thanks for the info.

Interesting that one of the rads you had added is a non-functioning one. I presume it did work when initially fitted? And, these new rads of yours are the narrower 'microbore' piping?

Could you confirm, please - these non-working rads were non-functioning before BG changed your boiler? And not since? So, it ain't down to something daft that BG did?! Cool.

And you've said that BG tried to get these rads hot, but failed? As part of that, then surely must have tried opening up the lockshield valves.

Ok, pleased you are up for some experimentation :-)

That utility rad sounds ideal. Could you post a pic of it, please, and a shot of each valve too? And then we'll guide you through how to tackle it...

Yeah one of the non-working ones is a new one, and it’s the new ones that have the microbore pipes. It worked to some extent, but it was never great - at some point in the last few years it’s stopped working at all. 

They’re definitely not BG’s fault, they were an issue before and we just happened to need a new boiler. My one query is over whether they could/should have spent longer on the power flush as they can’t have spent more than 2 - 4 hours on it and some sources lead me to believe it can take a fair while longer if there’s a stubborn blockage somewhere. Might be a long shot though. 

Yes they did try to get these rads working - they said they were unable to, recommended getting a plumber in to really get to the bottom of the issue, but we want to see if there’s anything we can do for ourselves first. We need to let the finances recoup really before lining ourselves up for a potentially big plumbing job. 

This is the UR rad. Not one of the new ones but probably ideal in terms of size and location for some experimentation. This one used to get nice and hot, I’d say it’s only in the last couple of years that’s not been the case. It stays stone cold now. 

Dazza1902

You cannot powerflush blocked rads fed by microbore to any degree of success.Take them off , turn upside down and put a hose thru them. Shake, tap with a rubber mallet, rinse repeat. They may be choco with sludge, if the water keeps coming out like ink, they are sludged up.

ThisIsWeird

dryjoy said:

Yeah one of the non-working ones is a new one, and it’s the new ones that have the microbore pipes. It worked to some extent, but it was never great - at some point in the last few years it’s stopped working at all. 

They’re definitely not BG’s fault, they were an issue before and we just happened to need a new boiler. My one query is over whether they could/should have spent longer on the power flush as they can’t have spent more than 2 - 4 hours on it and some sources lead me to believe it can take a fair while longer if there’s a stubborn blockage somewhere. Might be a long shot though. 

Yes they did try to get these rads working - they said they were unable to, recommended getting a plumber in to really get to the bottom of the issue, but we want to see if there’s anything we can do for ourselves first. We need to let the finances recoup really before lining ourselves up for a potentially big plumbing job. 

This is the UR rad. Not one of the new ones but probably ideal in terms of size and location for some experimentation. This one used to get nice and hot, I’d say it’s only in the last couple of years that’s not been the case. It stays stone cold now. 

That's still quite a heavy rad! But ideal in many ways as the floor is tiled.

Could you, as an initial step, try out what I outlined in my last post, and report back?

I agree - BG will have done what can be reasonably expected of any new boiler installer. They fulfilled their obls.

Clearly you could have asked them to come out and strip down your pipework, looking for the presumed blockage, but that would cost.

It would still be useful to see what the overall layout is, to see if it's obvious where all this microbore pipework began.

dryjoy

ThisIsWeird said:

dryjoy said:

Yeah one of the non-working ones is a new one, and it’s the new ones that have the microbore pipes. It worked to some extent, but it was never great - at some point in the last few years it’s stopped working at all. 

They’re definitely not BG’s fault, they were an issue before and we just happened to need a new boiler. My one query is over whether they could/should have spent longer on the power flush as they can’t have spent more than 2 - 4 hours on it and some sources lead me to believe it can take a fair while longer if there’s a stubborn blockage somewhere. Might be a long shot though. 

Yes they did try to get these rads working - they said they were unable to, recommended getting a plumber in to really get to the bottom of the issue, but we want to see if there’s anything we can do for ourselves first. We need to let the finances recoup really before lining ourselves up for a potentially big plumbing job. 

This is the UR rad. Not one of the new ones but probably ideal in terms of size and location for some experimentation. This one used to get nice and hot, I’d say it’s only in the last couple of years that’s not been the case. It stays stone cold now. 

That's still quite a heavy rad! But ideal in many ways as the floor is tiled.

Could you, as an initial step, try out what I outlined in my last post, and report back?

I agree - BG will have done what can be reasonably expected of any new boiler installer. They fulfilled their obls.

Clearly you could have asked them to come out and strip down your pipework, looking for the presumed blockage, but that would cost.

It would still be useful to see what the overall layout is, to see if it's obvious where all this microbore pipework began.

Thanks, yeah we’re going to try it. Probably won’t get to it until next weekend though unfortunately - got a busy week, but having 10/13 rads working and proper hot water after nearly a month without any of ‘em is good enough for now. 

ThisIsWeird

Has a magnetic filter been installed? Hopefully this will continue to catch any released sludge.