Can a fir or other evergreen be grafted to a willow to give super growth rate?

GervisLooper

When I am walking in the forestry I love the feeling going deep under the canopy of those huge fir (I think that is what they are?) trees gently swaying in the wind. Where the light is blocked out and you are walking on soil that feels soft as clouds.

To grow a forest like that I guess would take decades and I would be retired before getting to that.

Willow are said to be able to grow a few metres a year so can those large canopied firs be grafted to willows to take advantage of the former's high growth rate?

If not why not? I just saw an article which claimed a guy in the states grafted 40 different fruit trees into one so that they could get fruit from all those different trees on the one tree.

Is it similar to animals that you can only mate certain closely related species together such as humans and apes made the humanzee and lions and tigers can create ligers.

If it is a no-go then what would be the fastest growing trees to create a dense canopy as described above? I feel that it might just be better densely packing willow as although they are not the most dense trees they could make up for it in numbers.

Farway

GervisLooper said:

Is it similar to animals that you can only mate certain closely related species together such as humans and apes made the humanzee and lions and tigers can create ligers.

If it is a no-go then what would be the fastest growing trees to create a dense canopy as described above? I feel that it might just be better densely packing willow as although they are not the most dense trees they could make up for it in numbers.

Yes, need to be same species, although with gene modification / engineering I suppose in could be possible in a laboratory

 Fastest growing trees? In UK The Leyland Cypress is one, but I doubt it would make a canopy.

Not strictly a tree, but some bamboo rocket away & have leaves that will give dense cover

GervisLooper

Farway said:

GervisLooper said:

Is it similar to animals that you can only mate certain closely related species together such as humans and apes made the humanzee and lions and tigers can create ligers.

If it is a no-go then what would be the fastest growing trees to create a dense canopy as described above? I feel that it might just be better densely packing willow as although they are not the most dense trees they could make up for it in numbers.

Yes, need to be same species, although with gene modification / engineering I suppose in could be possible in a laboratory

 Fastest growing trees? In UK The Leyland Cypress is one, but I doubt it would make a canopy.

Not strictly a tree, but some bamboo rocket away & have leaves that will give dense cover

I guess canopy is off the cards but I would more like privacy screen, horizontal field of view, which seems more accessible to feel like one is in a wood. How fast does bamboo grow? I imagine nothing would beat willow? I have bought some biomass 'super willow' which claim 4 meters growth per year.

I have yet to see them come into action though as they seem to be dormant but just recently they have started to grow their buds a little indicating some life.

Farway

GervisLooper said:

Farway said:

GervisLooper said:

Is it similar to animals that you can only mate certain closely related species together such as humans and apes made the humanzee and lions and tigers can create ligers.

If it is a no-go then what would be the fastest growing trees to create a dense canopy as described above? I feel that it might just be better densely packing willow as although they are not the most dense trees they could make up for it in numbers.

Yes, need to be same species, although with gene modification / engineering I suppose in could be possible in a laboratory

 Fastest growing trees? In UK The Leyland Cypress is one, but I doubt it would make a canopy.

Not strictly a tree, but some bamboo rocket away & have leaves that will give dense cover

I guess canopy is off the cards but I would more like privacy screen, horizontal field of view, which seems more accessible to feel like one is in a wood. How fast does bamboo grow? I imagine nothing would beat willow? I have bought some biomass 'super willow' which claim 4 meters growth per year.

I have yet to see them come into action though as they seem to be dormant but just recently they have started to grow their buds a little indicating some life.

Just what height are you wanting? 

If just screening then IMO getting something that grows up & up is storing up long term hassle

Go slower growth but more dense, or naturally stops about XX feet high, like hazel

GervisLooper

Farway said:

Just what height are you wanting? 

If just screening then IMO getting something that grows up & up is storing up long term hassle

Go slower growth but more dense, or naturally stops about XX feet high, like hazel

Well the two criteria are different.

The overhead canopy was just a passing fancy, not related to screening. One which I have quickly abandoned due to impracticality.

Had not given it much thought about height but I read on woodlands.co.uk that you 'feel' like you are in a woodland once the trees reach head height so had loosely been thinking that height and higher.

Willow still seem a good bet for screening as they don't grow high total height either do they with only a lifespan of 30-40 years and a modest max height. I have a couple of mature ones that already existed on the land and they seem a decent size of about 3-4x the size of a human for the main trunks.

FreeBear

Farway said:  Fastest growing trees? In UK The Leyland Cypress is one, but I doubt it would make a canopy.

Radiata Pine - 25-50 years to mature to a sufficient size for logging. So pretty quick growing.

But growing Leylandii or Radiata will not make you popular with the neighbours.

Dustyevsky

It only takes about 5 or 6 years for deciduous trees, like beech, birch, field maple hawthorn, cherry, and alder to be large enough to create a 'wood.' By 10 years, some trees might be as much as 20' on good soil, and by then thinning will be needed. English oak is slower, but often available 'free' as seedlings.

Around the outside of those, planting something like Western Red Cedar, Scots Pine, or Holm Oak would give privacy in winter and cut the wind. So would the new varieties of willow, if grown multi-stemmed, or even coppiced hazel..

Certain Eucalyptus are probably faster than any other tree, but they're non-native, may suffer in wind and very cold winters, and have other problems. Use sparingly.

That's about all there is to know on the choices side. The actual husbandry is harder, especially with regard to animal damage, competition from other plants etc, and if the soil is poor, all bets are off regarding speed. Over a couple of acres, what can an average individual do about that? Answer, not much!

FreeBear

Dustyevsky said: Certain Eucalyptus are probably faster than any other tree, but they're non-native, may suffer in wind and very cold winters, and have other problems. Use sparingly.

Cider Gum (Eucalyptus gunnii) and Snow Gum (Eucalyptus pauciflora) are both pretty hardy and will survive severe frost without any harm. Snow Gum also has the advantage that it can be coppiced quite hard (have chopped mine back a couple of times already). However, gum trees are shallow rooted and prone to be blown over in high winds. They also "poison" the soil around them preventing most other plants from getting established.

GervisLooper

Radiata Pine - 25-50 years to mature to a sufficient size for logging. So pretty quick growing.

Hmm so similar lifespan to willow? I could not imagine anything growing as fast as them?

But growing Leylandii or Radiata will not make you popular with the neighbours.

Don't think that will be a problem several acres between me and closest neighbour. The others it is just woodland in each direction anyway.

twopenny

On the other hand Willow thrives in that wet soil you have and should help soak it up.

You could use it to weave fences, shelter screen for whatever you need, make matting to walk upon the soil. Driving probably a bit too far,

Look at how the medieval period dealt with boggy ground. There's still some trackways preserved to this day made of wood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Track

Wooden tracks across the ground would stop a vehicle sinking so much but the weight of such would need 2 layers.

You could see if there's a load of shredded branches etc available now with so many trees coming down in this winters storms. There's tons of stuff yet to be cleared.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

twopenny said:

You could use it to weave fences, shelter screen for whatever you need,

One of our neighbours has done this with Willow, looks really nice.

GervisLooper said:I read on woodlands.co.uk 

I wonder if these places will let you buy out the covenant, you could sell your land, buy a woodland, park the van up in the woods and run a few exclusive camping pitches for 60 days of the year (or 28 in Wales) as some income.