Demanded to stop using land

Cluelessabouteverything

We purchased our leasehold house in 2016, we asked the sellers of the house about the lease and they claimed to have not paid it in years and didn’t know who owned it. Our solicitors sent the owners of the lease a letter confirming our purchase of the house and for all future contact should be to us. We didn’t hear anything back from them so we just forgot about it. Last week we received a letter from their solicitors demanding we cease use of the land at the rear of the property as we are using it without permission or we will face further charges and legal action. I have tried to contact their solicitor via email (twice) as she asked and phoned to confirm she received the email just to be told they’ll pass the message on (twice) we’ve had no contact or demand for money from the land owner before this. This is the first time in the 9 years we have lived here. I have a copy of the letter our solicitor sent to them notifying them of the purchase. There is no contact number/email for the company that owns the land either. All we have is a company name and address. We’ve never received any details on how to pay. 

Any idea on what to do next. We get married this year so don’t want to have to spend that money on legal fees/solicitors if we don’t need to 🤦🏼‍♀️

RAS

Can you clarify how you've bought a house leasehold? And don't own the land? Or is this a separate title to the land?

MeteredOut

Does your lease allow for you to use the land at the rear of the property? If not, any reason you don't just stop using it and that should be the end of things?

If you've used it for 9 years, I suspect the letter is to stop any future claim for adverse possession (I've no idea if any such claim might be successful).

BikingBud

Cluelessabouteverything said:

We purchased our leasehold house in 2016, we asked the sellers of the house about the lease and they claimed to have not paid it in years and didn’t know who owned it. Our solicitors sent the owners of the lease a letter confirming our purchase of the house and for all future contact should be to us. We didn’t hear anything back from them so we just forgot about it. Last week we received a letter from their solicitors demanding we cease use of the land at the rear of the property as we are using it without permission or we will face further charges and legal action. I have tried to contact their solicitor via email (twice) as she asked and phoned to confirm she received the email just to be told they’ll pass the message on (twice) we’ve had no contact or demand for money from the land owner before this. This is the first time in the 9 years we have lived here. I have a copy of the letter our solicitor sent to them notifying them of the purchase. There is no contact number/email for the company that owns the land either. All we have is a company name and address. We’ve never received any details on how to pay. 

Any idea on what to do next. We get married this year so don’t want to have to spend that money on legal fees/solicitors if we don’t need to 🤦🏼‍♀️

Land at the rear of the property would, I surmise, be land that does not form part of the property and therefore you have no right to use it. Unless you have established the boundary of the property to include this land, which you might have/should have determined when you purchased, you may be overstepping.

Property includes all land and buildings.

Cluelessabouteverything

The lease to the land was signed in 1970 by one of the owners of the property before we bought it. I don’t know when/how but a company then bought the lease to the land and now they own it. Our house is built on the land that they own, and on all the paperwork from the sale of the house it states we have space for 3 cars (the extra land) and the previous owners had full use of the land and had never received any demand for money to use it. Our solicitors contacted the land owners and we never received any further instructions from them on how to pay.

MeteredOut

Cluelessabouteverything said:

The lease to the land was signed in 1970 by one of the owners of the property before we bought it. I don’t know when/how but a company then bought the lease to the land and now they own it. Our house is built on the land that they own, and on all the paperwork from the sale of the house it states we have space for 3 cars (the extra land) and the previous owners had full use of the land and had never received any demand for money to use it. Our solicitors contacted the land owners and we never received any further instructions from them on how to pay.

Does the lease explicitly state (or even better, show via a plan with a red outlined box) that the space for 3 cars is the extra land that you're now being told you can't use?

Cluelessabouteverything

MeteredOut said:

Cluelessabouteverything said:

The lease to the land was signed in 1970 by one of the owners of the property before we bought it. I don’t know when/how but a company then bought the lease to the land and now they own it. Our house is built on the land that they own, and on all the paperwork from the sale of the house it states we have space for 3 cars (the extra land) and the previous owners had full use of the land and had never received any demand for money to use it. Our solicitors contacted the land owners and we never received any further instructions from them on how to pay.

Does the lease explicitly state (or even better, show via a plan with a red outlined box) that the space for 3 cars is the extra land that you're now being told you can't use?

We have the plan with the land outlined in red although it doesn’t specifically state it is for parking there is no where else the parking could be as there is a narrow path and a main road at the front of the house. 

MeteredOut

Cluelessabouteverything said:

MeteredOut said:

Cluelessabouteverything said:

The lease to the land was signed in 1970 by one of the owners of the property before we bought it. I don’t know when/how but a company then bought the lease to the land and now they own it. Our house is built on the land that they own, and on all the paperwork from the sale of the house it states we have space for 3 cars (the extra land) and the previous owners had full use of the land and had never received any demand for money to use it. Our solicitors contacted the land owners and we never received any further instructions from them on how to pay.

Does the lease explicitly state (or even better, show via a plan with a red outlined box) that the space for 3 cars is the extra land that you're now being told you can't use?

We have the plan with the land outlined in red although it doesn’t specifically state it is for parking there is no where else the parking could be as there is a narrow path and a main road at the front of the house. 

On that basis, it certainly sounds like the lease allows for you to use that land, so I guess you'll have to persevere with trying to get the leaseholders to explain why they believe you do not have the right to do so.

In the meantime, you need to choose whether to keep using the space. I'd suggest doing so might be the quickest way to get them to engage. If do decide to do this, i'd be tempted to put this in writing to the leaseholders solicitor, with copies of the evidence you have, stating you will continue to use the area and await their engagement to discuss what, if any, leaseholder fees are due.

BikingBud

Cluelessabouteverything said:

MeteredOut said:

Cluelessabouteverything said:

The lease to the land was signed in 1970 by one of the owners of the property before we bought it. I don’t know when/how but a company then bought the lease to the land and now they own it. Our house is built on the land that they own, and on all the paperwork from the sale of the house it states we have space for 3 cars (the extra land) and the previous owners had full use of the land and had never received any demand for money to use it. Our solicitors contacted the land owners and we never received any further instructions from them on how to pay.

Does the lease explicitly state (or even better, show via a plan with a red outlined box) that the space for 3 cars is the extra land that you're now being told you can't use?

We have the plan with the land outlined in red although it doesn’t specifically state it is for parking there is no where else the parking could be as there is a narrow path and a main road at the front of the house. 

Extra land? Is it within or outwith the red line?

So you need to establish and match the red line on the plan with clear markers on the ground and determine if the land in question is within your property or not.

Parking or garden if it is within the red boundary then it is likely your leasehold property.

Outside the red line then objection to your use is likely sound.

Are rights of way mentioned at all?

Cluelessabouteverything

MeteredOut said:

Cluelessabouteverything said:

MeteredOut said:

Cluelessabouteverything said:

The lease to the land was signed in 1970 by one of the owners of the property before we bought it. I don’t know when/how but a company then bought the lease to the land and now they own it. Our house is built on the land that they own, and on all the paperwork from the sale of the house it states we have space for 3 cars (the extra land) and the previous owners had full use of the land and had never received any demand for money to use it. Our solicitors contacted the land owners and we never received any further instructions from them on how to pay.

Does the lease explicitly state (or even better, show via a plan with a red outlined box) that the space for 3 cars is the extra land that you're now being told you can't use?

We have the plan with the land outlined in red although it doesn’t specifically state it is for parking there is no where else the parking could be as there is a narrow path and a main road at the front of the house. 

On that basis, it certainly sounds like the lease allows for you to use that land, so I guess you'll have to persevere with trying to get the leaseholders to explain why they believe you do not have the right to do so.

In the meantime, you need to choose whether to keep using the space. I'd suggest doing so might be the quickest way to get them to engage. If do decide to do this, i'd be tempted to put this in writing to the leaseholders solicitor, with copies of the evidence you have, stating you will continue to use the area and await their engagement to discuss what, if any, leaseholder fees are due.

I did state in the email we were told we had parking for three cars with evidence to support this and asked what is owed. We haven’t not paid on purpose, we just never received anything from them letting us know how to pay or how to get in contact with them. Even searching online they have no email or phone number. 

Cluelessabouteverything

BikingBud said:

Cluelessabouteverything said:

MeteredOut said:

Cluelessabouteverything said:

The lease to the land was signed in 1970 by one of the owners of the property before we bought it. I don’t know when/how but a company then bought the lease to the land and now they own it. Our house is built on the land that they own, and on all the paperwork from the sale of the house it states we have space for 3 cars (the extra land) and the previous owners had full use of the land and had never received any demand for money to use it. Our solicitors contacted the land owners and we never received any further instructions from them on how to pay.

Does the lease explicitly state (or even better, show via a plan with a red outlined box) that the space for 3 cars is the extra land that you're now being told you can't use?

We have the plan with the land outlined in red although it doesn’t specifically state it is for parking there is no where else the parking could be as there is a narrow path and a main road at the front of the house. 

Extra land? Is it within or outwith the red line?

So you need to establish and match the red line on the plan with clear markers on the ground and determine if the land in question is within your property or not.

Parking or garden if it is within the red boundary then it is likely your leasehold property.

Outside the red line then objection to your use is likely sound.

Are rights of way mentioned at all?

The land we are using is within the red line boundary, on the most recent plan they have sent us they also own the access road that runs between the houses and the land, all of our neighbours use this access road also as it is the only way they can access their land at the back (all the other houses are freehold, ours is the only leasehold)