Mum and Auntie have not obtained Probate but have helped themselves to my Nans money ...

elephantjetaime1976

Sadly, my Nan passed away in February 2021 after contracting COVID, my Nan was very close to both my sister and I.  

Our mum, and her sister (Our Auntie) dealt with the arrangement of the funeral (A Burial) because my Nan had purchased a Pay Up Front Funeral Plan with a local Funeral !!!!!!. It was an awful funeral due to the COVID restrictions, the number of people were restricted in attending, we were not allowed to sing, and had to keep our distance.  Due to the restrictions, the wake did not take place in which my Nan had paid for up front. My Nan had also paid for two stretched funeral cars for family to follow her in her coffin but we were not allowed to travel in them - although my Auntie decided to use one of them as a Taxi to get to the cemetery.

My Nan has always had a will - the full contents of the will, both my sister and I are not too sure of however where we are concerned is that my Nan named her "solicitor" as the Executor to carry out its instructions (we do not know the info of the solicitor) but this has always been known in the family of ladies.  

My Mum and Aunt decided to bypass the solicitor and have gone onto deal with the estate themselves because my Nan lived in supporting living, they say she had nothing .... They took what they wanted out of her flat and refused us entry to choose any items that may have some attachment to us, and my mum brought back some unused A4 Paper Pads, Crayons & Pens, a Handbag that I had never seen my Nan use, and some unused Face Cream - it was bizarre? At the time, there was a big falling out because neither our mum or Aunt would allow us access into our Nan's Flat to choose something sentimental to us before House Clearance went in. 

A couple of weeks after the funeral, my mum gave both my sister and I £100 each and said go have a day out with your family - this is what your Nan wanted ... 

The cemetery is miles from where both my Sister and I live, but we visited this week. We were shocked - it is in a state with no Headstone - basically just a plot with nothing on it and it is only because we remember where she was buried that we found it.  I am disgusted because my Aunt lives only 5 miles from the cemetery.

Again, I challenged my mum over the mess and non placement of a headstone because my Nan had pre-paid for this as part of her Funeral Plan - the excuse my mum gave me was that the ground needed to settle and that she hadn't had chance to meet up with her sister to sort out? Its 4 years this month, and we now have technology that means this can be sorted without a visit.

I went onto the gov website to conduct a search and seek a copy of the official will, both mum and Aunt haven't obtained Probate which would explain why there isn't a headstone because I believe you need a "Deed of Grant" which they won't have. 

They have basically used internet banking (from when they helped Nan before) to run down and take her money, then used a Clearance Firm to rid of all her possessions (after they took what they wanted) and I question what was in the will for them to behave in this way, Is it illegal to go against someones will and not get the executor to deal with the Estate. 

How do I obtain a copy of the will - I just want my Nan to have a Headstone on her grave as I find this so disrespectful - they have taken everything of hers, I don't care if they have taken the money etc as they have to live with the guilt of that but what they have done is disgusting.

Thanks x 

Sea_Shell

Sadly, without it going to probate you may never know what was in her will.

Also you're unlikely to be able to force them to pay for a headstone.

If you had very deep pockets, you could possibly pursue the mishandling of the estate through the legal system.  The police will not be interested at all.

It will likely be cheaper (and less stressful) to just arrange a headstone yourself, assuming you can afford it out of your own money.

It's sad how so many families show their worst sides when a little bit of money is involved.

Sorry that's not more positive.

p00hsticks

Did your nan own her flat or was she renting it ?

If your nan's estate didn't include any property or stocks & shares and any savings were below the limits that banks would release to relatives without seeing a grant of probate, then it may well be that the "solicitor" / your mum and aunt didn't need to apply for probate. 

Unfortunately in such cases where probate is not needed, even if there is a will then it is not made public. 

If a solicitor had been named as the executor then your mum and aunt could have asked them to renounce the position and allow them to do it themselves. If the estate was small (and it sounds as if it was) then the solicitor would probably be relieved to do so as there would be a risk of there not being enough money to pay for their services. 

Four years should be far more than long enough for the ground to settle before putting in a headstone, so by all means continue to push for that. 

I'm sorry about the funeral - my brother also died during Covid and we faced similar restrictions to you, which meant we were never able to give him a proper send-off. 

JGB1955

It is perfectly possible that, even if a will exists, probate would not be required.  Banks will pay out (sometimes as much as £50k) upon sight of a death certificate and a signed indemnity.  It's also quite possible that the solicitor was asked to renounce their executorship, especially if there might be insufficient funds to pay their fees.

I'm unsure that a pre-paid funeral plan would include the costs of a wake.  Neither am I aware of any need for a grant of probate before a headstone being placed.  Families grieve/deal with death in different ways.

I agree that funerals/cremations during lockdown were especially grim and austere - my father died in June 2020 and his funeral was not the sort of ceremony he would have envisaged.  It took us a further 4 years before we scattered his ashes.  My mother's ashes were scattered at the same time, 15 years after her own death.

gwynlas

Just because there was a grim funeral due to covid there is no reason  that you could not hold a memorial service now if you wished possibly to coincide with the placing of a headstone.

Time2count

A friend of mine lost his wife in 2018. He has only been able to place a headstone a few months ago as the ground wasn't ready until then. It doesn't help with the rest of it I know but it might be true and that could help you feel better. Talk to someone at the burial ground and they'll let you know when you'll be able to place a headstone.