Parents’ Finances

lotto

My dad is in a Home and has Dementia and my mum has just died. They have a joint account and all bills are paid from this account. I live at the rented accommodation with my mum and do all the food shopping etc from their joint account. Now she has died and dad can’t manage the finances, what do I do about using the joint account, is it now illegal?

TooOrangeyForCrows

Hi. I have a friend that went through this a few years ago so I have some knowledge that is kind of still fresh in mind. Though admittedly he did not already have access to his dad's bank account/s etc.

From your message I will make 2 assumptions:

1) You do not have any kind of Lasting Power of Attorney (POA) for your dad (specifically for Property and Financial affairs).
2) Your dad no longer has 'Mental Capacity' to make his own financial (or welfare related) decisions.

'Legally' you would have to go through the Court of Protection and apply to be your dad's Deputy 

All the info (including other options) are on the government's website.
https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy

In short it costs money to apply and also maintain, doesn't normally happen straight away, if granted you get 'supervised' to make sure everything is above board (regards spending). In my friends case he had to pay an extra several hundred for a court appearance before being appointed as deputy (he also applied for health & welfare) I don't think this is necessary in all cases (and then had to pay a few hundred a year for the aforementioned supervisor (officially Officer of the Public Guardian) who was basically someone that just visited on occasion and wanted to check everything was okay and check bank statements and some kind of annual 'financial report' my friend had to prepare. 

Good luck.

EDIT: If anyone else is reading this I cannot stress enough. GET POWER OF ATTORNEY SORTED LONG BEFORE SOMETHING LIKE THIS BECOMES NECESSARY.
Otherwise "It's a real PITA" - friend's quote

lr1277

Sorry for your loss.

Do you have your own account and income for your own needs?

Or are you reliant on the money in your parent's account?

elsien

if your dad is in a home, you can’t be using his money to pay for your food in utilities even if you have access to his account. As a joint account the money now automatically becomes his and if he lacks capacity around his finances has to be used in his best interests.

Do you not work or claim benefits/pension in your own right?

If there is no power-of-attorney, you’re going to have to apply for a deputyship to access his bank account and that takes months. If you are then using that money for your own needs instead of his, that will be a safeguarding and raise all sorts of questions when it comes to light. Which it will, because you have to send accounts to the OPG each year as a financial deputy. 

You are also going to have to look at the tenancy and whose name that is in and getting that changed into your name. if your dad’s name is on the tenant fee, that is also likely to need the deputyship to deal with it. Is it a social housing tenancy or private?

As a starting point, take readings for all  utilities, have the accounts transferred to your name and informed the council that you are now responsible for council tax. 

p00hsticks

elsien said:

As a starting point, take readings for all  utilities, have the accounts transferred to your name and informed the council that you are now responsible for council tax. 

OP, I'm sorry for your loss. 

As others have said, when they become aware of your mothers death the bank will automatically turn the joint account into a sole one in your fathers name, which you shouldn't have access to unless you have PoA for your father (and eventhen, can only make payments that are for his benefit, not yours).

You therefore need to have another bank account of your own to receive any funds that you might get and for which to pay any utility bills associated with you rather than your dad. 

If you registered the death you should have been told about the Tell Us Once service. If you have used this then the council should already be aware of the death and may well have already issued a revised council tax bill, but you will need to apply for the 25% reduction if you are now the only person living in the house. 

If you are on benefits there may be help you can get with funeral costs etc....

Keep_pedalling

If you don’t have lasting power of attorney for your father you are going to find things rather difficult, because you must inform the bank of both your mother’s death and your father’s lack of mental capacity, and from that point the account will be frozen. Someone is then going to need to apply for deputyship in order to manage his finances. That can be a close relative or the local authority if they are paying the bulk of his fees. 

You should speak to his social worker and explain the situation as any care cost he is paying are going to stop once the bank are aware of the situation. 

Any costs associated with the flat are now your responsibility while you remain living there, so you need to inform the landlord, the utility companies and the local authority. You will be entitled to the single person occupancy for council tax. 

elsien

People don’t have ongoing social workers anymore. The OP will probably need to go through the adult social care duty team and wait for someone to be allocated.

Brie

strictly speaking if you didn't have third party authority or POA then accessing your parents' account was, if not illegal, considered potentially fraud by the bank.  While we all understand that people do this for legitimate purposes (i.e. helping with the bills and shopping) and a bank would understand this too on a personal basis - on a business basis it isn't allowed.  If there had been any scamming or outright acts of fraud against your parents the bank would likely refuse to help knowing that they had already allowed you, a non account holder, to access their money.

The same applies now that mom has gone so as others have said you need to find a way to sort this out.  

Continuing to assume you do not have POA then these are my suggestions on how to handle finances...

• Contact the care home and let them know that they will not be paid until the situation is sorted out.
• Contact any bills that you cannot pay yourself such as rent, council tax, utilities and advise the same that the money is not accessible.
• Contact the landlord/agency that rented to your mom and see if your name can go on the tenancy agreement instead - assuming you have the money to pay for this.
• Likewise switch any other bills into your name - assuming again you can pay for it.
• If there are no savings beyond what is in the joint account, inform any creditor of your mom's (credit card etc) that mom has died and there is no money to pay the bills.  

Obviously if you are working you will have wages coming in.  If you are on benefits check to see if these should change based on the fact that you are living alone and no longer have access to any income from your parents that might have helped support you in the past.  Let the council know at a suitable point that the flat is single occupancy and therefore you should receive a suitable discount on council tax.

Sorry for your loss and the situation in general.  It's no doubt going to be a rough time for you, stay strong.

sheramber

I assume mum didn’t have a will.

Do you have a relative who can help you sort everything out?

lotto

Thank you all for your advice. In answer to your questions:
a) When my dad went into a home, the Church Trust (landlord) put me on the paper work to say if anything happened to my mum, I could stay renting the property.
b) I am self employed working 27hrs a week.
c) My mum has a will but no savings.
d) I have a sibling but don’t know how helpful he would be.
e) I am not on benefits.
f) There is no PoA

Savvy_Sue

a) excellent news: if you have an allocated Housing Officer then let them know, they MAY have someone who can offer advice and assistance if you need it, especially if you'll now be entitled to Housing Benefit.

c) who has the will (original, not a copy)? Do you know who the executor is? Do you know what the will says?

Unrelated to the above, assuming you arrange the funeral, and assuming there's enough in the bank to pay for it, the Funeral Director should be able to submit the bill to the bank directly.