S &75 protection and cap

TBagpuss

Hi all,
I am just about to buy a new-to-me car and it looks as thoug hthe cost is liekly to be around the £30,000 mark which made mne wonder about how the ca is worked iot for the purpose of retaining the protection.
I know thattit  doesn't apply if the cost s over£30,000 - if  I were to buy a car that had a sticker proce of £30,100 but trading in my old car for (say) £200, am iright in thinking that this would still count as being £10,100 and the rade in no different to if I'd paid £200 otherthan on the card, or would it be classed as buying it for £29,900 and therefore within the protection?
I don't think it's very likely to matter given the car eould come with a long warrenty and from a min dealer but it would be nice to know! 
(Of course, ideally I'll be haggling and get one that's a bit below my max budget but it's nice to be prepared for all possibilities!)

Thanks 

eskbanker

My understanding is that if you part-fund the purchase of a £30,100 item with a £200 trade in then the item value for s75 purposes remains £30,100.

born_again

TBagpuss said:

Hi all,
I am just about to buy a new-to-me car and it looks as thoug hthe cost is liekly to be around the £30,000 mark which made mne wonder about how the ca is worked iot for the purpose of retaining the protection.
I know thattit  doesn't apply if the cost s over£30,000 - if  I were to buy a car that had a sticker proce of £30,100 but trading in my old car for (say) £200, am iright in thinking that this would still count as being £10,100 and the rade in no different to if I'd paid £200 otherthan on the card, or would it be classed as buying it for £29,900 and therefore within the protection?
I don't think it's very likely to matter given the car eould come with a long warrenty and from a min dealer but it would be nice to know! 
(Of course, ideally I'll be haggling and get one that's a bit below my max budget but it's nice to be prepared for all possibilities!)

Thanks 

It is the purchase cost that is taken for S75 purposes. So @eskbanker is spot on.

Not forgetting that S75 is not a blanket cover all protection.

Should you use linked finance, then S75A could be in play as that covers up to £60,260 Using a credit card is not linked finance. 

TBagpuss

eskbanker said:

My understanding is that if you part-fund the purchase of a £30,100 item with a £200 trade in then the item value for s75 purposes remains £30,100.

Thanks . That's what I thought was likely to be the case but wanted to check. 

TBagpuss

born_again said:

TBagpuss said:

Hi all,
I am just about to buy a new-to-me car and it looks as thoug hthe cost is liekly to be around the £30,000 mark which made mne wonder about how the ca is worked iot for the purpose of retaining the protection.
I know thattit  doesn't apply if the cost s over£30,000 - if  I were to buy a car that had a sticker proce of £30,100 but trading in my old car for (say) £200, am iright in thinking that this would still count as being £10,100 and the rade in no different to if I'd paid £200 otherthan on the card, or would it be classed as buying it for £29,900 and therefore within the protection?
I don't think it's very likely to matter given the car eould come with a long warrenty and from a min dealer but it would be nice to know! 
(Of course, ideally I'll be haggling and get one that's a bit below my max budget but it's nice to be prepared for all possibilities!)

Thanks 

It is the purchase cost that is taken for S75 purposes. So @eskbanker is spot on.

Not forgetting that S75 is not a blanket cover all protection.

Should you use linked finance, then S75A could be in play as that covers up to £60,260 Using a credit card is not linked finance. 

Thanks. I'm not expectingto use finance. I'm hoping to be able to haggle a bit, and also not to be in a position to have to need s75 but it's aleays nice yo know what your options are  

lr1277

Have you found a car dealer who takes card payments for car sales?

 No experience myself but information on these boards suggests most car dealers do not. Some may allow a card payment for part of the deposit, but the remainder has to be a bank transfer.

The other thing to remember is the card company pays for S75 so many card companies make it very difficult to claim for S75. Especially say if you paid a £100 deposit on a £30k car.

Card companies do not mind chargeback because they take the money out of the retailers account so don't fund it themselves. However the retailer can object and so the money gets taken from your account and returned to the retailer. That is why never rely on S75 or chargeback.

I would suggest attempting to sort things out with the retailer before getting the card company involved. For S75 you would have to show best efforts to resolve the situation before making the S75 application.

eskbanker

lr1277 said:

The other thing to remember is the card company pays for S75 so many card companies make it very difficult to claim for S75. Especially say if you paid a £100 deposit on a £30k car.

What evidence do you cite for this, in terms of card companies being demonstrably influenced by the proportion of payment by card?

lr1277 said:

I would suggest attempting to sort things out with the retailer before getting the card company involved. For S75 you would have to show best efforts to resolve the situation before making the S75 application.

No, there is no such s75 obligation on the customer to make any efforts to resolve via the retailer, as the card company is jointly and severally liable in law, although there is an expectation that they do so for chargeback.  Obviously it'll generally be sensible to liaise with a car dealer to give them the opportunity to resolve matters, but it's not actually a legal requirement as such as far as s75 is concerned, if there's sufficient clarity regarding breach of contract....

TBagpuss

lr1277 said:

Have you found a car dealer who takes card payments for car sales?

 No experience myself but information on these boards suggests most car dealers do not. Some may allow a card payment for part of the deposit, but the remainder has to be a bank transfer.

The other thing to remember is the card company pays for S75 so many card companies make it very difficult to claim for S75. Especially say if you paid a £100 deposit on a £30k car.

Card companies do not mind chargeback because they take the money out of the retailers account so don't fund it themselves. However the retailer can object and so the money gets taken from your account and returned to the retailer. That is why never rely on S75 or chargeback.

I would suggest attempting to sort things out with the retailer before getting the card company involved. For S75 you would have to show best efforts to resolve the situation before making the S75 application.

I don't have a £30K limit on my cards - would probably be paying a deposit by card and tha balance by bank rtnasfer. 
 I'm aware that, if it came to it, it might bnot be plain sailing, purely that if I have the option between having, and not having, s75 and the possibility of another strong to my bow in the fiarly unlikely event of any issues it would be nice to have  

lr1277

eskbanker said:

lr1277 said:

The other thing to remember is the card company pays for S75 so many card companies make it very difficult to claim for S75. Especially say if you paid a £100 deposit on a £30k car.

What evidence do you cite for this, in terms of card companies being demonstrably influenced by the proportion of payment by card?

lr1277 said:

I would suggest attempting to sort things out with the retailer before getting the card company involved. For S75 you would have to show best efforts to resolve the situation before making the S75 application.

No, there is no such s75 obligation on the customer to make any efforts to resolve via the retailer, as the card company is jointly and severally liable in law, although there is an expectation that they do so for chargeback.  Obviously it'll generally be sensible to liaise with a car dealer to give them the opportunity to resolve matters, but it's not actually a legal requirement as such as far as s75 is concerned, if there's sufficient clarity regarding breach of contract....

Re the S75 claim after having paid £100 deposit on a car. No actual data points no. But reading the threads on these boards, credit card companies impose their own hoops to jump through to get the money. Some companies make claiming more difficult than others. You are fine to say a card company has to legally pay out on an S75 claim. But if they refuse, you would have to go to court to enforce the law. So if that is your preferred solution go for it.

Re showing best efforts. It was a suggested way forward. Again if the card company refuses you would have to go to court and not many people have the time and money for that approach. If you do, go for it.

Logically you are asking the card company or the retailer to pay money that they already have from you. Only a few organisations have the good grace to do that. Most companies fight tooth and nail to not lose any money paid to them.

Lets say the card company made 0.3% from the transaction, some of which will have gone to Visa or Mastercard. From that miniscule fee (and all the other miniscule fees) the law says they have to pay you the full cost of your purchase. Which is why they make it difficult and you might have to go to court to enforce the law (and there is no guarantee of success).

The retailer might have 99.7% of the amount you paid but unless they agree there is something wrong, they will see no reason to pay you back Again involves a court with no guarantee of success.

You are free to stand on your legal high horse but you may have to  go to court to get anything enforced with no guarantee of success. Good luck wih that.

eskbanker

lr1277 said:

eskbanker said:

lr1277 said:

The other thing to remember is the card company pays for S75 so many card companies make it very difficult to claim for S75. Especially say if you paid a £100 deposit on a £30k car.

What evidence do you cite for this, in terms of card companies being demonstrably influenced by the proportion of payment by card?

Re the S75 claim after having paid £100 deposit on a car. No actual data points no. But reading the threads on these boards, credit card companies impose their own hoops to jump through to get the money. Some companies make claiming more difficult than others. You are fine to say a card company has to legally pay out on an S75 claim. But if they refuse, you would have to go to court to enforce the law. So if that is your preferred solution go for it.

That's not really addressing the question though - I'm aware that card companies will sometimes resist claims for a variety of reasons, but was challenging the specific assertion that their tendency to do so is influenced by the proportion of the claim value that was paid by card.

lr1277 said:

eskbanker said:

lr1277 said:

I would suggest attempting to sort things out with the retailer before getting the card company involved. For S75 you would have to show best efforts to resolve the situation before making the S75 application.

No, there is no such s75 obligation on the customer to make any efforts to resolve via the retailer, as the card company is jointly and severally liable in law, although there is an expectation that they do so for chargeback.  Obviously it'll generally be sensible to liaise with a car dealer to give them the opportunity to resolve matters, but it's not actually a legal requirement as such as far as s75 is concerned, if there's sufficient clarity regarding breach of contract....

Re showing best efforts. It was a suggested way forward. Again if the card company refuses you would have to go to court and not many people have the time and money for that approach. If you do, go for it.

Logically you are asking the card company or the retailer to pay money that they already have from you. Only a few organisations have the good grace to do that. Most companies fight tooth and nail to not lose any money paid to them.

Lets say the card company made 0.3% from the transaction, some of which will have gone to Visa or Mastercard. From that miniscule fee (and all the other miniscule fees) the law says they have to pay you the full cost of your purchase. Which is why they make it difficult and you might have to go to court to enforce the law (and there is no guarantee of success).

The retailer might have 99.7% of the amount you paid but unless they agree there is something wrong, they will see no reason to pay you back Again involves a court with no guarantee of success.

You are free to stand on your legal high horse but you may have to  go to court to get anything enforced with no guarantee of success. Good luck wih that.

Again, that's missing the point - it is of course true that there's a difference between having rights and enforcing them, but that isn't the issue, I was simply correcting the false assertion that "For S75 you would have to show best efforts to resolve the situation before making the S75 application":

How do I make a Section 75 claim?

The law makes clear that both retailer and credit card company are jointly responsible for Section 75 claims.

It might be easier to first complain to the retailer in some instances – for example if you're looking for a repair or a replacement rather than a refund – but you don't have to.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/section75-protect-your-purchases/#how

born_again

lr1277 said:

Have you found a car dealer who takes card payments for car sales?

 No experience myself but information on these boards suggests most car dealers do not. Some may allow a card payment for part of the deposit, but the remainder has to be a bank transfer.

The other thing to remember is the card company pays for S75 so many card companies make it very difficult to claim for S75. Especially say if you paid a £100 deposit on a £30k car.

Card companies do not mind chargeback because they take the money out of the retailers account so don't fund it themselves. However the retailer can object and so the money gets taken from your account and returned to the retailer. That is why never rely on S75 or chargeback.

I would suggest attempting to sort things out with the retailer before getting the card company involved. For S75 you would have to show best efforts to resolve the situation before making the S75 application.

You can pay 1p & still have a S75 claim.
What the amount on the CC is makes no difference to how easy or hard it is.

Where most people fall down is they have no proof of a breach of contract &/or misrepresentation.
So no T/C around what they are claiming against.