Thanks, dealt with

i_like_cats

Thanks, dealt with 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Are you confusing Class 4 and Class 2 NI?

Bookworm105

are you sure it is Class 4?
£179.40 would be Class 2, which at that level of profit (or loss) is a voluntary option

PS - if you do not want to declare actual expenses then why not just claim the £1,000 trading allowance instead so turnover 1,850 - 1,000 = 850 taxable profit 

uknick

Class 4 is paid on profits, not turnover.  I've never paid them on the small self employed profit I make each year.

Have a look at this link and see if somehow your submitted figures have exceeded the lower threshold.

Rates and allowances: National Insurance contributions - GOV.UK

Edit - I just rembered £179 is the annual amount for Class 2 at £3.45 a week.  Does your return "suggest" you voluntarily pay this amount to maintain a full state pension year? 

Bookworm105

if you had a notice to file 23/24 then file you must (by tomorrow) or if you have registered for first time in 23/24 then you still must file as you informed them you "needed" to submit a tax return, so will be fined if you don't (nothing moot about it)

your tax return must include everything you did in 23/24: employment, self employment, dividends & interest received, rental income, "other income" (and capital gains if applicable) 

you can choose to claim the RAR allowance on it if you wish but by claiming RAR you are categorically not allowed to then claim costs in addition to it, that is the point of it, it "simplifies" matters as you do not have to list and justify individual items, just claim the "no questions asked" lump sum cost

Bookworm105

i_like_cats said:

Bookworm105 said:

are you sure it is Class 4?
£179.40 would be Class 2, which at that level of profit (or loss) is a voluntary option

PS - if you do not want to declare actual expenses then why not just claim the £1,000 trading allowance instead so turnover 1,850 - 1,000 = 850 taxable profit 

Looking at what I did for 2022/23, I put the rent I received from the subtenants under Your Turnover.  

The rent I had to pay to the head landlord, and utility bills I was contracted to pay for the tenants, went under Total Expenses Allowable.  

Leaving my net profit which was £2k-odd.

I’d better do the same again this time round, so I won’t be able to use the trading allowance.

let us start again as that comment raises a big red flag 
what is the nature of your business?

if your only source of income is the payment of rent to you from your tenants then you are not self employed, you are receiving income from land and should declare it as rental, not trading income. 

Furthermore, read this as to whether you qualify to pay Class 2 NI in the first place,
Renting out your property: Paying tax and National Insurance - GOV.UK

you cannot be charged class 4 on rental profit as it is not a trading activity 

Bookworm105

ok, so you are (were) a self employed trader doing rent to rent
A Complete Property Tax Guide for Landlords and Property Investors

Dazed_and_C0nfused

i_like_cats said:

No practical help here for example:

https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-national-insurance

1. Where is the bill, 2. How do I pay it?  Answers there are none.

What bill?

Isn't the Class 2 NI part of your Self Assessment liability????

uknick

Did you do an online tax return?  If so go back in and amend it to say you want to pay voluntary Class 2 NI.  You should then get a balance owing as part of the calculation and make payment in the normal way.

I stand to be corrected here but, I can't see why there be any fines or interest penalties as a) you've already submitted your return in time and b) surely you can't be fined for late payment (after 31 January 2025) of something you don't actually have to pay.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

i_like_cats said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

i_like_cats said:

No practical help here for example:

https://www.gov.uk/pay-class-2-national-insurance

1. Where is the bill, 2. How do I pay it?  Answers there are none.

What bill?

Isn't the Class 2 NI part of your Self Assessment liability????

Yes exactly, I just submitted my tax return and I ticked that I wanted to pay voluntary class 2s.  I did not owe any other tax.   After I clicked submit it did not bring up any page offering me the chance to pay the £179.  It just said thanks for submitting your return and I got an email receipt.  I definitely did tick the box saying I would pay voluntarily, there was just no option to!

When did you submit the return?  It takes a few days for the outcome to appear on your Self Assessment account.

But that is not a reason to not pay the Class 2 NI today.

If you don't pay today I think you may encounter issues with HMRC saying you have missed the boat for Class 2 NI.  That isn't necessarily correct but it does turn into hassle for you.

Bookworm105

i_like_cats said:

1. If I pay my voluntary Class 2’s for 2023/4 by direct debit, it won’t be taken until on or after 7th February.  Would that be classed as too late to count?   

What would the code be?  I read somewhere it was my NI number preceeded by 60.  But then when I tried to set up a direct debit, it said “Payment reference must be 14 or 15 characters starting with X, like XCA23456789345 or XLECL1234567893”.

2. Can I just pay that, but not first pay off what’s left of the 2019 6 month late filing penalty?   Or if I need to pay the 2019 fine first, can I do it by setting up another direct debit?   But again a problem with the codes. The HMRC statement of liabilities letter I’ve found has an11 digit number for the late filing penalty which begins with K.    So that also wouldn’t fit the 14-15 characters starting with X.

Thanks for any advice!  

why are you unable to read and pay?
Pay your Self Assessment tax bill: Make an online or telephone bank transfer - GOV.UK