SA Form: self-employed losses error

8Oatcakes

I am trying to complete my online self-assessment form and cannot get past the Losses page for self-employment, due to persistent error.

The business has made modest losses on the last 5 years.

On the losses page I am getting for the  “Loss to be carried back to previous year(s) and set-off against income (or capital gains): (optional)” an error message “The amount entered for 'Loss to be carried back to previous year(s) and set-off against income (or capital gains)' must be greater than 0 (zero) or blank. Please amend.” – no matter what is entered in the other boxes (including 0s).

 If a non-zero amount is entered in this box then the error is “The amount entered for 'Loss to be carried back to previous year(s) and set-off against income (or capital gains)' cannot exceed the positive equivalent of 'Net business loss for tax purposes' minus 'Loss from this tax year set-off against other income for 2023-24'. Please amend.”

I do want to carry  back any loss to previous years.

 

No matter what I enter in “Loss for this year set-off against other income” or “ Total loss to carry forward after all” there is always one of these errors for the “Loss to be carried back to previous year(s)” entry. And I cannot proceed.

I am using accrual basis so if possible, I can use sideways relief on other income (property and paid employment), although in previous years was using cash accounting.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Thank you

Nomunnofun1

8Oatcakes said:

I am trying to complete my online self-assessment form and cannot get past the Losses page for self-employment, due to persistent error.

The business has made modest losses on the last 5 years.

On the losses page I am getting for the  “Loss to be carried back to previous year(s) and set-off against income (or capital gains): (optional)” an error message “The amount entered for 'Loss to be carried back to previous year(s) and set-off against income (or capital gains)' must be greater than 0 (zero) or blank. Please amend.” – no matter what is entered in the other boxes (including 0s).

 If a non-zero amount is entered in this box then the error is “The amount entered for 'Loss to be carried back to previous year(s) and set-off against income (or capital gains)' cannot exceed the positive equivalent of 'Net business loss for tax purposes' minus 'Loss from this tax year set-off against other income for 2023-24'. Please amend.”

I do want to carry  back any loss to previous years.

 

No matter what I enter in “Loss for this year set-off against other income” or “ Total loss to carry forward after all” there is always one of these errors for the “Loss to be carried back to previous year(s)” entry. And I cannot proceed.

I am using accrual basis so if possible, I can use sideways relief on other income (property and paid employment), although in previous years was using cash accounting.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Thank you

Give me some figures and I will try to help you.

Loss carried forward from 2022/23.
Loss MADE in 2023/24.

I also note that you have ‘made modest losses in the last five years’. This may be open to challenge as HMRC may take the view that your trade is not a ‘real business’, more likely a hobby. Although generally applied to farmers I thought that I would flag this up. 

8Oatcakes

Loss in  2022/23 £434
Loss carried forward from 2022/23: "Total loss to carry forward after all other set-offs" (box 35) in 2023 Tax Return was  £1341 - including the  2022/23 £434 plus comparable amounts from previous three years.

Point about HMRC view noted. I expected to be earning from self-employed by now but ended up taking on short term part-time PAYE contract.

Thank you

Nomunnofun1

8Oatcakes said:

Loss in  2022/23 £434
Loss carried forward from 2022/23: "Total loss to carry forward after all other set-offs" (box 35) in 2023 Tax Return was  £1341 - including the  2022/23 £434 plus comparable amounts from previous three years.

Point about HMRC view noted. I expected to be earning from self-employed by now but ended up taking on short term part-time PAYE contract.

Thank you

And the loss for 2023/24?

8Oatcakes

Nomunnofun1 said:

8Oatcakes said:

Loss in  2022/23 £434
Loss carried forward from 2022/23: "Total loss to carry forward after all other set-offs" (box 35) in 2023 Tax Return was  £1341 - including the  2022/23 £434 plus comparable amounts from previous three years.

Point about HMRC view noted. I expected to be earning from self-employed by now but ended up taking on short term part-time PAYE contract.

Thank you

And the loss for 2023/24?

Loss £347

Nomunnofun1

8Oatcakes said:

Nomunnofun1 said:

8Oatcakes said:

Loss in  2022/23 £434
Loss carried forward from 2022/23: "Total loss to carry forward after all other set-offs" (box 35) in 2023 Tax Return was  £1341 - including the  2022/23 £434 plus comparable amounts from previous three years.

Point about HMRC view noted. I expected to be earning from self-employed by now but ended up taking on short term part-time PAYE contract.

Thank you

And the loss for 2023/24?

Loss £347

OK - to do this you must complete the self-assessment SHORT. A paper copy is attached. 

In box 34 (online equivalent) enter 347.
In box 35 enter 1341. 

And, Yes! It is difficult to find out where to find this advice from HMRC. One just has to know it!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65fd5a08f1d3a0001d32ad9b/sa103s-2024.pdf

8Oatcakes

Thank you very much for your help.

Box 34 is “Loss to be carried back to previous years and set off against income (or capital gains).

Whereas I would have thought  that  the £347 loss this year would have been used for “Loss from this tax year set off against other income for 2023–24” Box 33.

Am I missing something?

Nomunnofun1

8Oatcakes said:

Thank you very much for your help.

Box 34 is “Loss to be carried back to previous years and set off against income (or capital gains).

Whereas I would have thought  that  the £347 loss this year would have been used for “Loss from this tax year set off against other income for 2023–24” Box 33.

Am I missing something?

You previously said:

‘ I do want to carry  back any loss to previous years’

Your choice! The £347 is the 2023/24 loss. What do YOU want to do with it? Do you wish to carry it forward as before and add to the losses brought forward or utilise it? If the latter, do you want to set the £347 against 2023/24 (box 33) or against 2022/23 (box 35) - you can’t do both? 

The loss brought forward can now only be carried forward (unless you want to amend the 2022/23 at this late stage and claim the loss for that year against 2021/22 or 2022/23). 

8Oatcakes

Thank you for explaining. I did mean  to say  I do NOT want to carry  back any loss to previous years. My mistake.
 I will set the loss £347 loss against  2023/24 and carry forward the loss.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help.