Jobseeker’s Allowance - NI requirements.

TheShape

huckster said:

@green_man

Your Son could call JSA to request mandatory reconsideration, so a Decision Maker can check NI record. And as part of the request ask JSA to confirm what NI data they actually used.

But this process takes time, so he should look to claim UC.

It seems clear from what the OP has posted that their son is not eligible for JSA so a Mandatory reconsideration would be a waste of everyone's time.

The son should just claim UC ASAP.

TheShape

HillStreetBlues said:

What's "recently" as a person could claim on the 4th Jan and be entitled to it but the 5th not, or vice versa

Whether it was one or the other it looks like one scenario would mean there were some NI payments to take into account but not enough and the other scenario would mean no NI payments to take into account.

green_man

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

Have to say the information provided is appalling in this regard, it can’t be that hard to put a document up that explains what the actual eligibility criteria for NI contributions is!

Not sure this is specifically for public consumption but try this parliamentary document  
119._New_Style_JSA_only_V4.0_.pdf

which includes the following infomration 

To be entitled to New Style JSA, a claimant must first satisfy the two following contribution conditions. They must normally have both of the following:

• paid (or be treated as having paid) Class 1 National Insurance contributions as an employee (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) for 26 weeks (but not necessarily consecutive weeks) of at least 26 times the Lower Earnings Limit in 1 of the 2 complete tax years that fall before the start of the benefit year in which the claim begins.
 • paid (or be treated as having paid) or been credited with Class 1 Nation Insurance contributions (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) that amount to at least 50 times the Lower Earnings Limit in each of the two 2 years

A benefit year runs from the first Sunday (each year) in January and ends on the first Saturday immediately preceding the first Sunday in January the following year.

The two complete tax years that fall before the relevant benefit year are called relevant income tax years (RITYS).

Many Many thanks.

Now this seems to be the information I need. (Where the heck did you find that doc?)

However I must be reading these wrong as they seem impossible!!…e.g second criteria….’paid contributions of > 50 times lower earning limit’.   LEL is around £6k. So you need to have paid £300k contributions?  What am I misunderstanding here?

poppy12345

green_man said:

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

Have to say the information provided is appalling in this regard, it can’t be that hard to put a document up that explains what the actual eligibility criteria for NI contributions is!

Not sure this is specifically for public consumption but try this parliamentary document  
119._New_Style_JSA_only_V4.0_.pdf

which includes the following infomration 

To be entitled to New Style JSA, a claimant must first satisfy the two following contribution conditions. They must normally have both of the following:

• paid (or be treated as having paid) Class 1 National Insurance contributions as an employee (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) for 26 weeks (but not necessarily consecutive weeks) of at least 26 times the Lower Earnings Limit in 1 of the 2 complete tax years that fall before the start of the benefit year in which the claim begins.
 • paid (or be treated as having paid) or been credited with Class 1 Nation Insurance contributions (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) that amount to at least 50 times the Lower Earnings Limit in each of the two 2 years

A benefit year runs from the first Sunday (each year) in January and ends on the first Saturday immediately preceding the first Sunday in January the following year.

The two complete tax years that fall before the relevant benefit year are called relevant income tax years (RITYS).

Many Many thanks.

Now this seems to be the information I need. (Where the heck did you find that doc?)

However I must be reading these wrong as they seem impossible!!…e.g second criteria….’paid contributions of > 50 times lower earning limit’.   LEL is around £6k. So you need to have paid £300k contributions?  What am I misunderstanding here?

LEL is £123/week so it would be 50 times that amount. Not 50 x £6,000. Based on the information you have give he will not be entitled to New Style JSA.

Is there any reason why you're not acknowledging the advice for him to claim Universal Credit, is it because he has capital of more than £16,000?

p00hsticks

green_man said:

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

Have to say the information provided is appalling in this regard, it can’t be that hard to put a document up that explains what the actual eligibility criteria for NI contributions is!

Not sure this is specifically for public consumption but try this parliamentary document  
119._New_Style_JSA_only_V4.0_.pdf

which includes the following infomration 

To be entitled to New Style JSA, a claimant must first satisfy the two following contribution conditions. They must normally have both of the following:

• paid (or be treated as having paid) Class 1 National Insurance contributions as an employee (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) for 26 weeks (but not necessarily consecutive weeks) of at least 26 times the Lower Earnings Limit in 1 of the 2 complete tax years that fall before the start of the benefit year in which the claim begins.
 • paid (or be treated as having paid) or been credited with Class 1 Nation Insurance contributions (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) that amount to at least 50 times the Lower Earnings Limit in each of the two 2 years

A benefit year runs from the first Sunday (each year) in January and ends on the first Saturday immediately preceding the first Sunday in January the following year.

The two complete tax years that fall before the relevant benefit year are called relevant income tax years (RITYS).

Many Many thanks.

Now this seems to be the information I need. (Where the heck did you find that doc?)

However I must be reading these wrong as they seem impossible!!…e.g second criteria….’paid contributions of > 50 times lower earning limit’.   LEL is around £6k. So you need to have paid £300k contributions?  What am I misunderstanding here?

I can't remember exactly what it was I  googled but it was something like 'Detailed DWP eligibility criteria for new-style JSA. 
The Lower Earnings Limit is £123 a week (you are quoting the annual figure) - so they are saying that you need to have reached that for at least 50 weeks of the year

green_man

poppy12345 said:

green_man said:

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

Have to say the information provided is appalling in this regard, it can’t be that hard to put a document up that explains what the actual eligibility criteria for NI contributions is!

Not sure this is specifically for public consumption but try this parliamentary document  
119._New_Style_JSA_only_V4.0_.pdf

which includes the following infomration 

To be entitled to New Style JSA, a claimant must first satisfy the two following contribution conditions. They must normally have both of the following:

• paid (or be treated as having paid) Class 1 National Insurance contributions as an employee (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) for 26 weeks (but not necessarily consecutive weeks) of at least 26 times the Lower Earnings Limit in 1 of the 2 complete tax years that fall before the start of the benefit year in which the claim begins.
 • paid (or be treated as having paid) or been credited with Class 1 Nation Insurance contributions (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) that amount to at least 50 times the Lower Earnings Limit in each of the two 2 years

A benefit year runs from the first Sunday (each year) in January and ends on the first Saturday immediately preceding the first Sunday in January the following year.

The two complete tax years that fall before the relevant benefit year are called relevant income tax years (RITYS).

Many Many thanks.

Now this seems to be the information I need. (Where the heck did you find that doc?)

However I must be reading these wrong as they seem impossible!!…e.g second criteria….’paid contributions of > 50 times lower earning limit’.   LEL is around £6k. So you need to have paid £300k contributions?  What am I misunderstanding here?

LEL is £123/week so it would be 50 times that amount. Not 50 x £6,000. Based on the information you have give he will not be entitled to New Style JSA.

Is there any reason why you're not acknowledging the advice for him to claim Universal Credit, is it because he has capital of more than £16,000?

- Even 50 times £123 is over £6k a year in NI contributions which seems unlikely, but I expect the meaning is as poohsticks says above.

- No avoidance on the Universal credit point, in fact I thanked those suggesting it earlier (though didn’t type out those thanks). I simply hadn’t looked into Universal credit so didn’t have much to add and we still (in my view) hadn’t got to the bottom of the JSA question so didn’t want to get sidetracked, but I do appreciate these suggestions.

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

Have to say the information provided is appalling in this regard, it can’t be that hard to put a document up that explains what the actual eligibility criteria for NI contributions is!

Not sure this is specifically for public consumption but try this parliamentary document  
119._New_Style_JSA_only_V4.0_.pdf

which includes the following infomration 

To be entitled to New Style JSA, a claimant must first satisfy the two following contribution conditions. They must normally have both of the following:

• paid (or be treated as having paid) Class 1 National Insurance contributions as an employee (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) for 26 weeks (but not necessarily consecutive weeks) of at least 26 times the Lower Earnings Limit in 1 of the 2 complete tax years that fall before the start of the benefit year in which the claim begins.
 • paid (or be treated as having paid) or been credited with Class 1 Nation Insurance contributions (or class 2 for share fishermen and volunteer development workers) that amount to at least 50 times the Lower Earnings Limit in each of the two 2 years

A benefit year runs from the first Sunday (each year) in January and ends on the first Saturday immediately preceding the first Sunday in January the following year.

The two complete tax years that fall before the relevant benefit year are called relevant income tax years (RITYS).

Many Many thanks.

Now this seems to be the information I need. (Where the heck did you find that doc?)

However I must be reading these wrong as they seem impossible!!…e.g second criteria….’paid contributions of > 50 times lower earning limit’.   LEL is around £6k. So you need to have paid £300k contributions?  What am I misunderstanding here?

The Lower Earnings Limit is £123 a week (you are quoting the annual figure) - so they are saying that you need to have reached that for at least 50 weeks of the year

I think this is probably what they mean, though that’s not what it actually says (not how I read it anyway), but nothing else really makes sense.   However if that is indeed what it means it somewhat gazumps the first point which is having to achieve 25 weeks in total over the previous two years!   

They really need someone from the plain English society in to rewrite these.

p00hsticks

green_man said:

p

- Even 50 times £123 is over £6k a year in NI contributions

No it's not - it's earnings of over £6k a year.
 Someone earning between £123 (the lower Earnings limit) and £242 (the Primary Threshold) a week gets creditted with NI without actually having to pay any.
 It's only when you start earning more than £242 a week that you actually pay any NI.

green_man

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

p

- Even 50 times £123 is over £6k a year in NI contributions

No it's not - it's earnings of over £6k a year.
 Someone earning between £123 (the lower Earnings limit) and £242 (the Primary Threshold) a week gets creditted with NI without actually having to pay any.
 It's only when you start earning more than £242 a week that you actually pay any NI.

Well that makes much more sense !!

However I’m still struggling to unravel those two earnings  requirements.  The first one he will have definitely achieved.   The second one seems much more difficult, and, as stated previously, seems to make the first requirement redundant.  

Spoonie_Turtle

green_man said:

p00hsticks said:

green_man said:

p

- Even 50 times £123 is over £6k a year in NI contributions

No it's not - it's earnings of over £6k a year.
 Someone earning between £123 (the lower Earnings limit) and £242 (the Primary Threshold) a week gets creditted with NI without actually having to pay any.
 It's only when you start earning more than £242 a week that you actually pay any NI.

Well that makes much more sense !!

However I’m still struggling to unravel those two earnings  requirements.  The first one he will have definitely achieved.   The second one seems much more difficult, and, as stated previously, seems to make the first requirement redundant.  

The second condition can be achieved by claiming a benefit that credits class 1 NI credits - JSA, ESA, Carers Allowance, maybe some others.
The first condition is to make sure people have worked (enough) during one of the two relevant tax years to qualify, so they can't be eligible only via continually claiming such a benefit.