DWP recovery from estates

madbadrob

Without wanting to complicate things.  You have been granted probate.  Part of that probate is to settle all debts etc before any monies left can be distributed.  So i am assuming that you havent as yet paid any monies to anyone other than maybe creditors that are owed money.   (You tecnically shouldnt do this until all debts are in and all monies have been collected that are owed to the estate).  Debts then are paid in a strict order.  So funeray costs first.  Then secured debts ie mortgages or other loans set against possesions.   Only then do DWP get anything they are owed.  

In regards to the investigation you should tell dwp you had no dealings with your mothers finances prior to her death, you have contacted the bank and they can only provide statements from ..... if they are not satisfied then they can under new legislation obtain this information (they may be restricted as you are)

You need to go through all your mothers financial paperwork you can find for any evidence.  

You have also stated that someone was spending a large amount of money each month to keep your mothers savings below a certain level.  Id argue this is suggestive that your mothers claim was not legitimate and that the estate is going to be in some serious debt.  If that is the case you dont have to worry.

Youre not liable for any overpayment other than the money left in your mothers estate.  I would make it clear to the dwp that the person who dealt with your mothers finances was joe bloggs and they can be contacted at xyz.  If DWP feel there is a case of benefit fraud then the person who had control of your late mums finances could be implicated.

Please understand im looking at the most negative aspect based on your post and it may well be that nothing untoward as occurred.  But most importantly remember that no debt on your late mothers estate comes out of your pocket.

If you have paid monies to others assuming that was their share then you will need to call that back or warn them not to spend it as there could be a benefits overpayment debt.  In this instance if they refuse then yes you could be held personally liable.

Rob

Rufty1

elsien said:

I don't think they are accusing her of renting her house out but they do need to check that she was not claiming benefits that she was not entitled to as benefits can change when people go into care. As part of her claim, she or her representative would have agreed to inform of changes in circumstances. They have every right to check up on that and it is not an invasion of her privacy in that context. With regards to the timescales, the executor can only provide the records that they have access to. 
You could contact the local authority about the information that was given to them for the financial assessment? 

Thank you.  I have already informed them that the house was not rented out.  My sibling did inform them when she went into care.

Rufty1

Shelldean said:

My memories  are foggy as it ws a while ago.
We got similar letter when a relative died.
Due to the fact she was getting benefits but spending  lot less so savings  built up. Meaning when she claimed she had a  much lower amount of savings.  So when she died DWP wanted to why the figures from first claim and probate differed so much. 
She also have protected  savings sorry can't recall the official  title  of it. But it meant that even if she won a million pounds she'd  still be able to claim pension credits. Being entitled  to this protected  savings  depended on age when first claiming I think. And was only available  for  cert time before they changed  the system.

Shelldean said:

Have you checked if she had protected pensions credits as mentioned in my previous post 

Thank you.  I'm not sure what is meant by protected pensions credit but I'll see what I can find out.  They want statements from December 2014 but I can only go back 6 years.  I have asked DWP for a copy of her original claim.

Shelldean

Rufty1 said:

Shelldean said:

My memories  are foggy as it ws a while ago.
We got similar letter when a relative died.
Due to the fact she was getting benefits but spending  lot less so savings  built up. Meaning when she claimed she had a  much lower amount of savings.  So when she died DWP wanted to why the figures from first claim and probate differed so much. 
She also have protected  savings sorry can't recall the official  title  of it. But it meant that even if she won a million pounds she'd  still be able to claim pension credits. Being entitled  to this protected  savings  depended on age when first claiming I think. And was only available  for  cert time before they changed  the system.

Shelldean said:

Have you checked if she had protected pensions credits as mentioned in my previous post 

Thank you.  I'm not sure what is meant by protected pensions credit but I'll see what I can find out.  They want statements from December 2014 but I can only go back 6 years.  I have asked DWP for a copy of her original claim.

Rufty1

It was an old rule that has since been abolished. I can't remember all the facts. Let me see if I wrote about it previously.
Hubby's Nan died in 2014 so things are hazy.

Shelldean

Rufty1 I looked back through my previous comments and found these two. 

Sorry it's indefinite assessed income period. The last two paragraphs!!!!

Assessed Income Period

An assessed income period (AIP) is a period during which your customer does not need to report changes to pensions (we treat payments from the Pension Protection Fund or Financial Assistance Scheme in the same way as a pension), annuities, equity release payments or capital as they happen. Other changes in circumstances still have to be reported.

Section 28 of the Pensions Act 2014 provided for the abolition of the AIP. Since 6 April 2016, no new AIPs have been set, and all AIPs with a specified end-date have now been phased out.

If your customer was aged 75 or over when the AIP was set, it will have been set indefinitely. Your customer may have an indefinite AIP if they were aged 75 or over at 6 April 2016.

Indefinite AIPs already in place at 6 April 2016 will only end if one of the circumstances described under When the assessed income period ends early applies

Second reply 

Was from this page

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pension-credit-technical-guidance/a-detailed-guide-to-pension-credit-for-advisers-and-others#assessed-income-period



So it was called assessed income period not savings anything. Sorry.

But depending on the age when she started collecting pension credit she may well have been on this AIP. 
 Hubby nan was and so her savings increased as she wasn't spending any and gaining interest. So when she died there was a big discrepancy between what she had when she'd first claimed and what she had when she died. This meant DWP investigated

Rufty1

madbadrob said:

Without wanting to complicate things.  You have been granted probate.  Part of that probate is to settle all debts etc before any monies left can be distributed.  So i am assuming that you havent as yet paid any monies to anyone other than maybe creditors that are owed money.   (You tecnically shouldnt do this until all debts are in and all monies have been collected that are owed to the estate).  Debts then are paid in a strict order.  So funeray costs first.  Then secured debts ie mortgages or other loans set against possesions.   Only then do DWP get anything they are owed.  

In regards to the investigation you should tell dwp you had no dealings with your mothers finances prior to her death, you have contacted the bank and they can only provide statements from ..... if they are not satisfied then they can under new legislation obtain this information (they may be restricted as you are)

You need to go through all your mothers financial paperwork you can find for any evidence.  

You have also stated that someone was spending a large amount of money each month to keep your mothers savings below a certain level.  Id argue this is suggestive that your mothers claim was not legitimate and that the estate is going to be in some serious debt.  If that is the case you dont have to worry.

Youre not liable for any overpayment other than the money left in your mothers estate.  I would make it clear to the dwp that the person who dealt with your mothers finances was joe bloggs and they can be contacted at xyz.  If DWP feel there is a case of benefit fraud then the person who had control of your late mums finances could be implicated.

Please understand im looking at the most negative aspect based on your post and it may well be that nothing untoward as occurred.  But most importantly remember that no debt on your late mothers estate comes out of your pocket.

If you have paid monies to others assuming that was their share then you will need to call that back or warn them not to spend it as there could be a benefits overpayment debt.  In this instance if they refuse then yes you could be held personally liable.

Rob

Thanks Rob.  That all makes sense.  No I haven't distributed any money yet.  But the person who has already liberated the account of tens of thousands is getting impatient for their share.  You wont be surprised to hear that they have also shredded every piece of paperwork so I only have 6 years worth of bank statements. So don't know how DWP are going to work out what is owed between 2014 and 2018.  Time will tell.  Thanks for taking the time to write back to me.

Rufty1

Shelldean said:

Rufty1 I looked back through my previous comments and found these two. 

Sorry it's indefinite assessed income period. The last two paragraphs!!!!

Assessed Income Period

An assessed income period (AIP) is a period during which your customer does not need to report changes to pensions (we treat payments from the Pension Protection Fund or Financial Assistance Scheme in the same way as a pension), annuities, equity release payments or capital as they happen. Other changes in circumstances still have to be reported.

Section 28 of the Pensions Act 2014 provided for the abolition of the AIP. Since 6 April 2016, no new AIPs have been set, and all AIPs with a specified end-date have now been phased out.

If your customer was aged 75 or over when the AIP was set, it will have been set indefinitely. Your customer may have an indefinite AIP if they were aged 75 or over at 6 April 2016.

Indefinite AIPs already in place at 6 April 2016 will only end if one of the circumstances described under When the assessed income period ends early applies

Second reply 

Was from this page

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pension-credit-technical-guidance/a-detailed-guide-to-pension-credit-for-advisers-and-others#assessed-income-period



So it was called assessed income period not savings anything. Sorry.

But depending on the age when she started collecting pension credit she may well have been on this AIP. 
 Hubby nan was and so her savings increased as she wasn't spending any and gaining interest. So when she died there was a big discrepancy between what she had when she'd first claimed and what she had when she died. This meant DWP investigated

Thanks again.  Do you mind me asking if you had to pay a load back?  And how long they took to sort it out?  It's been a year already for me.  Mom would have been 70 when she got the credits first.

GrumpyDil

In regards to the bank statements have you contacted the bank to ask directly as whilst I couldn't get statements I did recently get a printout of all transactions going back around 13 years on a credit card?

Newly_retired

Same here. The bank were willing to supply whatever I asked for, so it is worth asking their Bereavement Team.re was 

My husband did battle with DWP for over a year aksing for old statements before they finally conceded that his mother was in fact on an Assessed Income period, so although the savings that accrued seemed to suggest that she had too much capital, there was no overpayment. I think DWP often write because if the Probate figure included a property value, they jump to conclusions, wrongly in many cases.

HillStreetBlues

madbadrob said:

  Debts then are paid in a strict order.  So funeray costs first.  Then secured debts ie mortgages or other loans set against possesions.   Only then do DWP

That's incorrect, secured debt always comes first, but only on the asset they are secured against.