Parents gave money for house deposit now divorced.

Joeclockend

Hi, first post.
This is a bit of a weird one. It's not about trying to get any money back or who owns what it's to try to explain to my ex wife how housing and mortgages work.
My parents gave us about £20,000 to help with our first deposit. They then gave 5 or 10 grand to help us on to the next more expensive house. We then got divorced and her dad agreed to pay me some of the equity accrued to take my name off the mortgage. The original house was £180,000 and the new house was worth around £300,000 and the equity was about £50,000 at the time. I should say her dad had done the same as my parents and Infact paid in more. I agreed on £15,000 because I had two kids that were living there and I was never going to have them have to move out.
She has now bought a new house with her new partner who sold his flat. I am not sure of the financial details.
Anyway here is the thing. I have said to her that my mum and dad's money is still part of what you own, it didn't disappear, it was part of your ability to buy the next house. 
I tried to use the analogy of investors but she insists that they just gave us money to buy the first housecand a bit for the second and their money has nothing  to do with helping keeping roof over their grandkids heads. To hear this money has completely disappeared somehow. This isn't a legal thing. They don't want the money back but would like an appreciation that this money still exists in the brick and morter of this house.
Can someone explain this in a way that is foolproof or give an example. Or something to make her realise that money just doesn't disappear like that. Yes it was a gift and she can say we'll it's my money now but that's not what she's getting at.

Emmia

Joeclockend said:

Hi, first post.
This is a bit of a weird one. It's not about trying to get any money back or who owns what it's to try to explain to my ex wife how housing and mortgages work.
My parents gave us about £20,000 to help with our first deposit. They then gave 5 or 10 grand to help us on to the next more expensive house. We then got divorced and her dad agreed to pay me some of the equity accrued to take my name off the mortgage. The original house was £180,000 and the new house was worth around £300,000 and the equity was about £50,000 at the time. I should say her dad had done the same as my parents and Infact paid in more. I agreed on £15,000 because I had two kids that were living there and I was never going to have them have to move out.
She has now bought a new house with her new partner who sold his flat. I am not sure of the financial details.
Anyway here is the thing. I have said to her that my mum and dad's money is still part of what you own, it didn't disappear, it was part of your ability to buy the next house. 
I tried to use the analogy of investors but she insists that they just gave us money to buy the first housecand a bit for the second and their money has nothing  to do with helping keeping roof over their grandkids heads. To hear this money has completely disappeared somehow. This isn't a legal thing. They don't want the money back but would like an appreciation that this money still exists in the brick and morter of this house.
Can someone explain this in a way that is foolproof or give an example. Or something to make her realise that money just doesn't disappear like that. Yes it was a gift and she can say we'll it's my money now but that's not what she's getting at.

So, as I understand it.

Your parents gave you £20k towards the property - what percentage of the purchase price was that?

You and your ex owned the property for X years - how much was it worth when you split?

Her parents paid you off with £15k (did that take your name off the deeds?) which you accepted as you have two kids with her. 

She then sold the property and bought a new one with her new partner.

Essentially, I don't think you have any claim on her current property. You accepted £15k as a settlement, crystallising a £5k loss plus losing the value of any equity through price growth.

Edit: was there a financial settlement with the divorce? i.e. formal child maintenance, pension sharing, disclosure of savings, debts etc.

elsien

OP has said this is not anything to do with trying to get money back, but more the ex-wife appreciating the help that was given is still supporting the children now.

Honestly, you’re divorced. The financials appear to have been sorted. You have separate lives now. Does it matter what she does or doesn’t think about how things got to where they are?
 I’m not seeing the point of causing friction debating something that isn’t going to make any difference to anything anyway.

Emmia

elsien said:

OP has said this is not anything to do with trying to get money back, but more the ex-wife appreciating the help that was given is still supporting the children now.

Honestly, you’re divorced. The financials appear to have been sorted. You have separate lives now. Does it matter what she does or doesn’t think about how things got to where they are?
 I’m not seeing the point of causing friction debating something that isn’t going to make any difference to anything anyway.

I read it in such a way that the OP thinks he's "invested" in her current property, and so has a claim on the equity / price growth. 

Otherwise, why raise the question?

Pollycat

Joeclockend said:

Hi, first post.
This is a bit of a weird one. It's not about trying to get any money back or who owns what it's to try to explain to my ex wife how housing and mortgages work.
My parents gave us about £20,000 to help with our first deposit. They then gave 5 or 10 grand to help us on to the next more expensive house. We then got divorced and her dad agreed to pay me some of the equity accrued to take my name off the mortgage. The original house was £180,000 and the new house was worth around £300,000 and the equity was about £50,000 at the time. I should say her dad had done the same as my parents and Infact paid in more. I agreed on £15,000 because I had two kids that were living there and I was never going to have them have to move out.
She has now bought a new house with her new partner who sold his flat. I am not sure of the financial details.
Anyway here is the thing. I have said to her that my mum and dad's money is still part of what you own, it didn't disappear, it was part of your ability to buy the next house. 
I tried to use the analogy of investors but she insists that they just gave us money to buy the first housecand a bit for the second and their money has nothing  to do with helping keeping roof over their grandkids heads. To hear this money has completely disappeared somehow. This isn't a legal thing. They don't want the money back but would like an appreciation that this money still exists in the brick and morter of this house.
Can someone explain this in a way that is foolproof or give an example. Or something to make her realise that money just doesn't disappear like that. Yes it was a gift and she can say we'll it's my money now but that's not what she's getting at.

So what is she getting at?

kimwp

Your mum and dad's money did effectively disappear. When they gifted it to you, it became yours. Then yours and your ex's depending how you drew up ownership of the house. Then your and your ex's money was split how you agreed. So your parents money doesn't form part of her estate.

It's nonsensical to assign ownership in the way you are suggesting - you could equally say that the money from your parents paid for the food and bills, clothes and costs of moving etc while you were together, instead of the house - once it was gifted freely, it's not attached to anything.

silvercar

Whatever money your parents gave you at the time of buying the houses, or anywhere along your journey together, is taken care of in the financial split at the time of the divorce. Anything post financial settlement is hers. Effectively you settled for £15k to financially walk away. 

sheramber

What exactly do you expect her to do to show appreciation to your parents that the money still exists in the bricks and mortar of her new house with her new partner?

Are your parents really wanting this or is it you that feels aggrieved  that she has moved on from ‘your house’. 

Financial ties over the house
between you were settled when you accepted the £15k.  At best there is only £5k left as you were given 15k back. 

Exodi

I didn't like the tone of this to be honest, it comes across as condescending, e.g. "explain to my ex wife how housing and mortgages work", "make her realise that money just doesn't disappear like that", etc. Especially as I'm minded to side with your ex-wife on this, based on what you've said.

It's also hard to see what your goal is with all this. The contributions from your parents have been made as gifts (with forms signed to such effect), which you fully acknowledge. You then agreed a buyout down the line as part of the divorce, which in effect holds within it equity created from your parents gifts. You agreed to accept £15k of the £50k equity available (which, effectively means if your parents gifted £25k-£30k as you say, you've allowed her keep part of this, with the justification that she had two kids living with her). While I won't comment on the split (as it's unique to each couple), I'm sure you appreciate that you don't get another bite of the apple.

I'm also sure you're not naive enough to not see the obvious potential risk to requesting she formally agrees that part of the equity in the house is somehow attributable to your parents. Who's to say that she wouldn't then find herself in court with this admission that was forced out of her being used as evidence?

You're divorced, she's moved on, I really don't understand why you're expending all of this energy on petty matters of principle, if, as you say, "they don't want the money back". It can be interpreted as a bit controlling to be perfectly honest.

Your parents should sleep easy knowing that they helped create a situation where their grandchildren are well housed, no-one disputes this. You/they shouldn't need her to give a press conference with a hand on the bible stating on the record that your parents have some form of equity in the property and it's hardly surprising if she finds your insistence that she does suspicious.

Joeclockend said:

Anyway here is the thing. I have said to her that my mum and dad's money is still part of what you own, it didn't disappear, it was part of your ability to buy the next house. 
I tried to use the analogy of investors but she insists that they just gave us money to buy the first housecand a bit for the second and their money has nothing  to do with helping keeping roof over their grandkids heads. To hear this money has completely disappeared somehow. This isn't a legal thing. 

Sorry but you're wrong. Your parents connection to the money did legally disappear the second they gifted it to you both (and signed a gifted deposit form to that effect), after which time it became jointly yours and your ex as part of the equity of the house. Then, when you signed the TR1 (and accepted a cash payment) as part of the divorce, the money became no longer legally connected to you either.

The money hasn't legally 'disappeared', but the connection legally has (which I think is the crux of your point).

HedgehogRulez

Why does it matter? Move on