Dodgy boss about to do a runner...

patmartin008

My 18 year old daughter has been working part time at a local coffee shop in London for a few years. Only recently has she gone almost full time as she has finished college and is earning while she looks at her options. 

She has zero hours contract (nothing ever signed) and is paid monthly. Her boss set up another coffee shop in Portugal about a year ago and has steadily run the London one into the ground. I could see it coming and warned my daughter but yesterday she (and all her colleagues) got a text to say the business was closing in 5 days.

She was upset but went ahead and is finishing her last few shifts. She mentioned to the regulars that it was the last few days. Within half an hour the owner called to threaten her that she wouldn't be paid her final salary if she told anyone the business was about to close. He only employs young girls and has made other threats in the past about closing the business, not paying salaries etc. Also has a camera in store to film all their movements (not for security reasons). 

I asked to see her payslips and noticed that recently she has been earning approx. £1400 per month but no tax of NI contributions were made. I understand she's not liable for tax yet but the NI threshold of £242 per week means the employer should have been paying it or am I missing something?

Not worried about non NI contributions affecting benefits or future pension as she is only 18. I just don't like seeing her boss making threats not to pay her (and her colleagues) their final wage. Lots of other dodgy stuff has happened with payments over time so I can see him not paying up. 

Reading through the HMRC site last night it seemed he can be reported for fraud for non payment of NI. Does anyone have any experience or advice on this? It seems he's planning to make a quick exit in the next few days by clearing the place out. He may go to Portugal full time but I'm reliably informed he has a UK home address and his wife and family are going nowhere so he'll have assets here should HMRC need to follow up.

Any feedback appreciated. As I said, it's not a huge amount of money, I just don't want to see him get away with it and probably do the same again in a few years. 

MikeJXE

You can contact HMRC anonymously on their website 

No idea how long it takes for them to do anything about it 

Undervalued

I understand your concern but there is only so much you can do.

You don't know for certain that she won't get paid unless / until it happens.

Is the business a Ltd company or is he a sole trader. If the latter then he is personally liable but if it is a Ltd company then generally not (with some exceptions).

£1400 per month is well over £4K above the single person's tax allowance in a full year however I am not clear how long she has been working?

Reporting any wrongdoing to HMRC, although the correct thing to do if she has evidence, won't in itself get her any money that is owed.

Grumpy_chap

patmartin008 said:

My 18 year old daughter has been working part time at a local coffee shop in London for a few years. Only recently has she gone almost full time as she has finished college and is earning while she looks at her options. 

She has zero hours contract (nothing ever signed) and is paid monthly. Her boss set up another coffee shop in Portugal about a year ago and has steadily run the London one into the ground. I could see it coming and warned my daughter but yesterday she (and all her colleagues) got a text to say the business was closing in 5 days.

She was upset but went ahead and is finishing her last few shifts. She mentioned to the regulars that it was the last few days. Within half an hour the owner called to threaten her that she wouldn't be paid her final salary if she told anyone the business was about to close. He only employs young girls and has made other threats in the past about closing the business, not paying salaries etc. Also has a camera in store to film all their movements (not for security reasons). 

I asked to see her payslips and noticed that recently she has been earning approx. £1400 per month but no tax of NI contributions were made. I understand she's not liable for tax yet but the NI threshold of £242 per week means the employer should have been paying it or am I missing something?

Not worried about non NI contributions affecting benefits or future pension as she is only 18. I just don't like seeing her boss making threats not to pay her (and her colleagues) their final wage. Lots of other dodgy stuff has happened with payments over time so I can see him not paying up. 

Reading through the HMRC site last night it seemed he can be reported for fraud for non payment of NI. Does anyone have any experience or advice on this? It seems he's planning to make a quick exit in the next few days by clearing the place out. He may go to Portugal full time but I'm reliably informed he has a UK home address and his wife and family are going nowhere so he'll have assets here should HMRC need to follow up.

Any feedback appreciated. As I said, it's not a huge amount of money, I just don't want to see him get away with it and probably do the same again in a few years. 

It sounds like a very unpleasant situation.
She is getting paid for the time being (one week more).
She is probably best keeping quiet, not mentioning the store closing while in the store and just get through this remaining time.
She is probably better off in the long run if the creepy boss who is ogling his young female staff via CCTV simply disappears.
And look for a better job with a better boss.
Once she receives her final pay, she can report the issues around NI to HMRC and let them deal with it.  Best not to do before the final pay lands.

All in all wholly unpleasant, it should not happen like this, but probably nothing that can be done other than chalk it all up as a life experience and the best you can do as a parent is to support her through the challenge.

I don't condone what the boss is doing, but the inappropriate monitoring via CCTV is probably all un-provable so no action will result in anything happening.

Marcon

Undervalued said:

£1400 per month is well over £4K above the single person's tax allowance in a full year however I am not clear how long she has been working?

patmartin008 said:

My 18 year old daughter has been working part time at a local coffee shop in London for a few years. Only recently has she gone almost full time as she has finished college and is earning while she looks at her options. 

As going 'nearly full time' is only recent, it's likely she has earned below the (cumulative) tax-free threshold for the current tax year, given we are coming close to the end of the 24/25 tax year, so not deducting tax is probably right.

patmartin008

Thanks for the feedback so far. Not too worried about the tax as her cumulative amount will be below the threshold. Half expecting her not to be paid but we'll see. As some of you have mentioned, it's a case of wait and see. If that happens (non payment), I can at least mention that I'll report it to HMRC to see if that has any effect. 

Marcon

patmartin008 said:

Thanks for the feedback so far. Not too worried about the tax as her cumulative amount will be below the threshold. Half expecting her not to be paid but we'll see. As some of you have mentioned, it's a case of wait and see. If that happens (non payment), I can at least mention that I'll report it to HMRC to see if that has any effect. 

Maybe let your daughter take responsibility for reporting it...(albeit with you providing the necessary link/impetus!).

gwynlas

At 18 with experience in the hospitaliy industry she should be looking for another job anyway if this employer is so bad.
Many people will not be too concerned about references relying more on trial shifts. If she can get a reference and a P45 all the better but even without she would just listed as a new starter on an emergency tax code until it is sorted out.

penners324

Is there a PAYE reference number on the payslip?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

patmartin008 said:

My 18 year old daughter has been working part time at a local coffee shop in London for a few years. Only recently has she gone almost full time as she has finished college and is earning while she looks at her options. 

She has zero hours contract (nothing ever signed) and is paid monthly. Her boss set up another coffee shop in Portugal about a year ago and has steadily run the London one into the ground. I could see it coming and warned my daughter but yesterday she (and all her colleagues) got a text to say the business was closing in 5 days.

She was upset but went ahead and is finishing her last few shifts. She mentioned to the regulars that it was the last few days. Within half an hour the owner called to threaten her that she wouldn't be paid her final salary if she told anyone the business was about to close. He only employs young girls and has made other threats in the past about closing the business, not paying salaries etc. Also has a camera in store to film all their movements (not for security reasons). 

I asked to see her payslips and noticed that recently she has been earning approx. £1400 per month but no tax of NI contributions were made. I understand she's not liable for tax yet but the NI threshold of £242 per week means the employer should have been paying it or am I missing something?

Not worried about non NI contributions affecting benefits or future pension as she is only 18. I just don't like seeing her boss making threats not to pay her (and her colleagues) their final wage. Lots of other dodgy stuff has happened with payments over time so I can see him not paying up. 

Reading through the HMRC site last night it seemed he can be reported for fraud for non payment of NI. Does anyone have any experience or advice on this? It seems he's planning to make a quick exit in the next few days by clearing the place out. He may go to Portugal full time but I'm reliably informed he has a UK home address and his wife and family are going nowhere so he'll have assets here should HMRC need to follow up.

Any feedback appreciated. As I said, it's not a huge amount of money, I just don't want to see him get away with it and probably do the same again in a few years. 

Payment of NI (and tax) is really an issue between the employer and HMRC.  

From your daughter's perspective it is her earnings and any tax or NI deductions being reported that matters.  

Has she actually checked her Personal Tax Account to see what information, if any, is being reported under the Real Time Information system?

I suspect she will find none have been reported as, if the employer was doing things correctly, they would clearly have been deducting NI from her earnings and would have been reporting them.  Even if say cashflow issues meant they hadn't paid the NI over to HMRC.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

gwynlas said:

At 18 with experience in the hospitaliy industry she should be looking for another job anyway if this employer is so bad.
Many people will not be too concerned about references relying more on trial shifts. If she can get a reference and a P45 all the better but even without she would just listed as a new starter on an emergency tax code until it is sorted out.

And as the emergency tax code is 1257L she probably would notice any difference.