Neighbour being awkward over new fence

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

kempiejon said:

. My fence had a T on the plans pointing into my garden for ones I fix. 

The T usually marks who is responsible for maintaining the boundary rather than specifically a fence. 

Unless there is wording in the deeds to state a fence must be present/maintained then to satisfy the T marks you could have some sticks and stick or a row of small boulders.

MikeL93 said:

The only place I want the 4 foot fence is where the fence goes between my house and his, I have said I'd go to 4 foot as a courtesy to him.

I'd only do a 6 foot fence if it was on my own land in front of the current fence and I'd basically do it as a middle finger to him.

Ultimately without him being able to prove he owns the existing fence I think you are free to replace (happy to be corrected on that), might be worth drawing up a plan and popping a copy through the door so the neighbour can't later say he wasn't aware of what was going on but the odds of the neighbour go to the trouble of a legal issue over replacing a 2 foot fence with a 4 foot should be very slim. 

LightFlare

teaselMay said:

I'd stick with 6 foot personally, or 4 foot and a trellis on top.

This would be my shout

MikeL93

MikeL93 said:

The only place I want the 4 foot fence is where the fence goes between my house and his, I have said I'd go to 4 foot as a courtesy to him.

I'd only do a 6 foot fence if it was on my own land in front of the current fence and I'd basically do it as a middle finger to him.

Ultimately without him being able to prove he owns the existing fence I think you are free to replace (happy to be corrected on that), might be worth drawing up a plan and popping a copy through the door so the neighbour can't later say he wasn't aware of what was going on but the odds of the neighbour go to the trouble of a legal issue over replacing a 2 foot fence with a 4 foot should be very slim. 

The bloke is pushing 70 and doesn't really look after his house or garden at all so I dont think he really has the money to take me to court or whatever over adding two feet of fencing between us.

ThisIsWeird

MikeL93 said:

My house was built in the 60's, when me and my girlfriend moved in 3 years ago there was no gate going down the side of the house from the driveway into the garden, so as soon as we moved in I had a gate installed to make the garden more secure. The fence that also ran down the side of the house between me and my neighbour was only 2 feet high but I didn't do anything about it. I didn't really have a problem with it only being that high apart from the fact that mine and my neighbours side doors face each other and he chain smokes daily so whenever I go into the garden or take rubbish to the bins he is always there so it gets awkward saying hello seven times a day.

Fast forward to now and we have a baby and with Summer coming up we are wanting to make the garden a bit more secure so I mentioned to my neighbour about replacing the fence with something higher. Everyone on our street has no idea whose fence is whose so everyone just splits the costs 50/50 for any upkeep. However as it is me wanting the fence to be higher I told my neighbour I would pay for all of it. He however at first wasn't too happy with me asking as he says he would feel slightly claustrophobic with a higher fence but I told him that 1. it is for added security for my son and 2. I would only be putting in a four foot fence maximum. At this point he sort of relented and said okay but I can tell he is annoyed.

How should I approach this going forward? I am going to ring the company in the next few days to come and measure up but I don't want him being awkward or difficult once the fence goes up.

Hi Mike.

You sound like a decent bloke, wanting to do the right thing by your neighb.

Just reverse the situation - would you complain about your neighbour wanting some privacy for their garden, especially if they had a new kid coming along? 

Folk are entitled to be able to sit outside their house in their own private garden, playing with their newborn, without feeling exposed and intruded upon. Especially by a smoker.

This proposed fence - is it at the front or back of your property? If front, then other issues may impinge on your decision, like Planning and Highways.

Assuming it's a rear garden, by all means suggest the "only 4' " height bit, but not as a certainty. You could mention you 'hope' it'll provide what your family needs, but it'll be hard to know until it's built. You may wish to add a trellis or similar on top afterwards, and you don't want a double-moan about this if you do.

I'm with the Lunatic above - either you ascertain who the existing fence actually 'belongs' to - ie, mainly on whose land it sits - or you play safe and put your new fence up against the existing, so it's on your land - that will now be 100% your fence. 

If, instead, you replace the existing fence, and it's considered shared/party, then you both have 'rights' over it. Always a risk.

So, is there any way to determine where the true boundary between you runs? Any fixed points? Old stone walls or pillars? Garages? Anything?

If not, seriously consider going it alone with this fence, and planting it on your side of the existing.

MikeL93

ThisIsWeird said:

MikeL93 said:

My house was built in the 60's, when me and my girlfriend moved in 3 years ago there was no gate going down the side of the house from the driveway into the garden, so as soon as we moved in I had a gate installed to make the garden more secure. The fence that also ran down the side of the house between me and my neighbour was only 2 feet high but I didn't do anything about it. I didn't really have a problem with it only being that high apart from the fact that mine and my neighbours side doors face each other and he chain smokes daily so whenever I go into the garden or take rubbish to the bins he is always there so it gets awkward saying hello seven times a day.

Fast forward to now and we have a baby and with Summer coming up we are wanting to make the garden a bit more secure so I mentioned to my neighbour about replacing the fence with something higher. Everyone on our street has no idea whose fence is whose so everyone just splits the costs 50/50 for any upkeep. However as it is me wanting the fence to be higher I told my neighbour I would pay for all of it. He however at first wasn't too happy with me asking as he says he would feel slightly claustrophobic with a higher fence but I told him that 1. it is for added security for my son and 2. I would only be putting in a four foot fence maximum. At this point he sort of relented and said okay but I can tell he is annoyed.

How should I approach this going forward? I am going to ring the company in the next few days to come and measure up but I don't want him being awkward or difficult once the fence goes up.

Hi Mike.

You sound like a decent bloke, wanting to do the right thing by your neighb.

Just reverse the situation - would you complain about your neighbour wanting some privacy for their garden, especially if they had a new kid coming along? 

Folk are entitled to be able to sit outside their house in their own private garden, playing with their newborn, without feeling exposed and intruded upon. Especially by a smoker.

This proposed fence - is it at the front or back of your property? If front, then other issues may impinge on your decision, like Planning and Highways.

Assuming it's a rear garden, by all means suggest the "only 4' " height bit, but not as a certainty. You could mention you 'hope' it'll provide what your family needs, but it'll be hard to know until it's built. You may wish to add a trellis or similar on top afterwards, and you don't want a double-moan about this if you do.

I'm with the Lunatic above - either you ascertain who the existing fence actually 'belongs' to - ie, mainly on whose land it sits - or you play safe and put your new fence up against the existing, so it's on your land - that will now be 100% your fence. 

If, instead, you replace the existing fence, and it's considered shared/party, then you both have 'rights' over it. Always a risk.

So, is there any way to determine where the true boundary between you runs? Any fixed points? Old stone walls or pillars? Garages? Anything?

If not, seriously consider going it alone with this fence, and planting it on your side of the existing.

If my neighbour wanted privacy and offered to pay for a new fence regardless of whose land it was on I wouldn't have any issue with it at all. 

The fence in question runs down the side of our houses into our back gardens. I know a 4 foot fence will be okay as on the other side of my garden there is a 4 foot fence between me and my other neighbours and we have the right amount of privacy.

I have been out and looked this morning and it looks as though the fence may sit more on his land than mine so if it is his fence how could I go about adding a fence on just my side? Would I have to attach it to his fence?

kempiejon

Would I have to attach it to his fence?

Not if it's his fence if he doesn't want you to put one up do you think he'll be keen to let you fix it to his?

ThisIsWeird

MikeL93 said:

If my neighbour wanted privacy and offered to pay for a new fence regardless of whose land it was on I wouldn't have any issue with it at all.
The fence in question runs down the side of our houses into our back gardens. I know a 4 foot fence will be okay as on the other side of my garden there is a 4 foot fence between me and my other neighbours and we have the right amount of privacy.
I have been out and looked this morning and it looks as though the fence may sit more on his land than mine so if it is his fence how could I go about adding a fence on just my side? Would I have to attach it to his fence?

First BiB - good, so a taller fence precedent has been set by others. In any discussion, just say that you 'think' 4' should be fine - 'like that one over there' - so you 'hope' it'll do here too.

As Kempie says, no - keep your fence separate. Unless you know, or can work out, where the 'true' boundary line runs, the best assumption is what you currently have - it runs down the seemingly 'shared' fence. Ie, the true boundary runs down the middle of the posts. However, to be sure, and based on what you've said above (BiB 2) where the existing fence might actually be on the neighb's side, you'd be safer planting your new posts fully on your side of the existing posts. So, use the faces of the existing posts wot face you as the presumed 'true' boundary line, and 'assume' that the existing posts are therefore on their side. Then position the back faces of your new posts on this line - that make sense?

It would be extremely galling if you replaced the existing fence, and then he came out and claimed it was on his land...

It may seem churlish, but based on the many fencie issues on this, and other, forums, if there is any doubt about your neighbour's calibre, you are always best to fully own your own fence - ie, it's fully on your land.

(I am assuming, tho', that there isn't any mention of fences and responsibility in your deeds?)

MikeJXE

If your property is 3/4 of a foot higher than his (9”) and you erected a 4 foot fence 

Why wouldn’t he be able to look over 4’9” 

What retains the difference in height ?

gwynlas

Personally as  you have already informed him of your intentions I would go ahead and replace the 2ft fence with a 4ft fence using exactly the same route.
If it proves inadequate for privacy you could add a trellis top or tall planting.
This would retain the marked boundary line and prevent arguments in the future should a new owner choose to remove 2ft fence and rely on your new fence as boundary.
If anything an attractive fence and your maintained garden would be an asset to his beneficaries sale in the future

ThisIsWeird

gwynlas said:

Personally as  you have already informed him of your intentions I would go ahead and replace the 2ft fence with a 4ft fence using exactly the same route.
If it proves inadequate for privacy you could add a trellis top or tall planting.
This would retain the marked boundary line and prevent arguments in the future should a new owner choose to remove 2ft fence and rely on your new fence as boundary.
If anything an attractive fence and your maintained garden would be an asset to his beneficaries sale in the future

Yes but no but...
I agree - that would be the preferred outcome, for both parties.
However, if that current fence is shared or 'party', the neighbour has as much say as the OP. So, should Mike find that 4' ain't enough, and want to stick a trellis on top, the neighb can say, 'non'.
It really comes down to how Mike thinks this neighb is going to be. He reckons the neighb is now grudgingly accepting of 4', so it should be pretty safe to replace the existing as you suggest.
However, if Mike judges the fellow could be a problem, then he knows what to do - take full ownership of the new fence.