ESA & HB migration to UC- extremely worried.

samantham06

I have got the migration letter to UC, I am very worried as the UC helpline has told me that I will not be able to do new 'permitted work' (PM) as I am currently doing on ESA (Support group) because my current permitted work ends in April (it is temporary) and the DWP want me to change to UC by then.

I asked if I get a new 'permitted work' job (A job under 16 hours and under the lower UC limit- I know UC do not call it PM) if I can just do it and keep the earnings and transitional protection, (So basically what I have been doing for years under the PM ESA scheme) - they said no. Apparently, any new employment is called a 'CHANGE' whilst on UC will mean I lose my transitional protection and trigger me losing it? Even if it is under 16 hours and under their limits, because they will not accept it as ESA PM did, so I cannot do that anymore. How is this fair? I need those few hours of work (which I do from home, to stop me being even more poorly and also as I have extensive costs in my home and my disability) 

I said this is very unfair as for years now I have been able to change PM jobs and not lose any of my HB or ESA- so why should I lose the transactional protection if I were to change PM work jobs under UC? This means I can never work again, because I will lose the transactional protection and not be able to afford my bills, as I will never be well enough to work over 16 hours and come off all these benefits.

If I worked the earnings would not even cover the transactional protection I would lose, because their limits are less. So not only do I lose the ability to work for my wellbeing, I also never can as I will lose so much money per week as I need that transactional protection. 

They said it's tough, and I can work under their limits, but I will lose the transactional protection, so it would be completely pointless, and I could not afford to lose that—ever, as I would be unable to pay my bills. So I cannot work.

The only way it seems I can ever do PM work for the future is to magically find a PM job before April that ESA approve, and stay in it for the rest of my life, as if I change it after April- then I lose all transactional protection for 'starting a new job' - even one under 16 hours and under the earnings limit on UC. Sometimes I am too ill to do any PM for months on end, so this will make me feel forced. 

Surely this cannot be right? I am extremely upset and worried. 

On top of this- my savings are over 16k as I had some disregarded from ESA as it was a personal injury payment, this was until June 2025, I keep meaning to open a trust fund and put it in there but I have not been well enough to.
What happens now? AS I will be with UC by June and you cannot have over  16k? I need to send ESA updated statements asap as my savings have gone up since last time they checked, but I was waiting to do this for the review in June, but now that will not happen so it is best to get it sorted now so everything is open. 

In addition as I get PIP I am allowed to study part time at home at uni, I have applied for a distance masters in September. ESA would let me- what now with UC? Can I not do that either? 

Can you help please? 

Spoonie_Turtle

I've not been able to take all of your post in properly but you've definitely been advised wrongly about your work. 

UC is actually better for work than ESA:

There are NO earnings or hours restrictions on UC, the only 'restriction' is earning so much that it would zero your UC claim.

You'll have a work allowance, which means they ignore the first £404 you earn before making deductions (which will be 55% of anything you earn above that).  I've inferred from the title that you claim HB which gives you that work allowance; if you don't claim help with housing costs it will be £673 per month instead.

There is a quirk that if your current earnings are above a certain threshold (the AET, which I think is £800-odd?) then drop below for 3 months you'd lost transitional protection, but I don't think that will apply to you because that's above the permitted work limits for ESA so your earnings cannot currently be that high for it to apply.

Changing jobs is not a change that would end your transitional protection.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection/when-will-my-universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection-end


The savings, my instinct is they should still be disregarded until June 2025 foot the same reason they are disregarded under ESA, but you should endeavour to put them into a trust fund by then if indeed that would mean they continue to be disregarded.  But others here will know for certain and be able to advise better than I can.

huckster

In these circumstances I think it may be worth you contacting your local MP with a complaint about the DWP migration process.  Government is wanting those with health conditions to be in paid work and your example shows that the benefit arrangements are making this very difficult.  Ask your MP to pass this onto DWP and get DWP to write to you.

Which UC helpline did you call ? The normal UC number 0800 328 5644 or the UC migration helpline ?

I think what the UC helpline is saying may not be 100% correct. 

UC does not recognise permitted work, because UC has the Work Allowance. The Work Allowance is to encourage people to work.

Under UC, any earnings above the Work Allowance of £404 per monthly assessment period are subject to the taper rate i.e. 55p of UC is deducted for every £`1 over the £404.  

Please read the link below about transitional protection if not already done so. 

Transitional protection if you receive a Migration Notice letter - GOV.UK

As the transitional element added to UC claim is only about the core benefit entitlements before any deductions are made and deductions include one related to earnings, your main point is that you will receive less UC, because the Work Allowance is not as generous as PW.  Under PW you can earn up to £183.50 per week without it affecting ESA.

So you need to ask DWP via your MP to look at how DWP are protecting your income including benefits following this change and encouraging you to stay in employment.

Under UC as you will be in a no work related requirements category due to LCWRA(support group) you can attend University  as that it not an issue for UC. However for UC you would have to provide evidence that you are not entitled to student maintenance finance. UC takes into account student maintenance finance available, even if you did not take this up.

samantham06

huckster said:

In these circumstances I think it may be worth you contacting your local MP with a complaint about the DWP migration process.  Government is wanting those with health conditions to be in paid work and your example shows that the benefit arrangements are making this very difficult.  Ask your MP to pass this onto DWP and get DWP to write to you.

Which UC helpline did you call ? The normal UC number 0800 328 5644 or the UC migration helpline ?

I think what the UC helpline is saying may not be 100% correct. 

UC does not recognise permitted work, because UC has the Work Allowance. The Work Allowance is to encourage people to work.

Under UC, any earnings above the Work Allowance of £404 per monthly assessment period are subject to the taper rate i.e. 55p of UC is deducted for every £`1 over the £404.  

Please read the link below about transitional protection if not already done so. 

Transitional protection if you receive a Migration Notice letter - GOV.UK

As the transitional element added to UC claim is only about the core benefit entitlements before any deductions are made and deductions include one related to earnings, your main point is that you will receive less UC, because the Work Allowance is not as generous as PW.  Under PW you can earn up to £183.50 per week without it affecting ESA.

So you need to ask DWP via your MP to look at how DWP are protecting your income including benefits following this change and encouraging you to stay in employment.

Under UC as you will be in a no work related requirements category due to LCWRA(support group) you can attend University  as that it not an issue for UC. However for UC you would have to provide evidence that you are not entitled to student maintenance finance. UC takes into account student maintenance finance available, even if you did not take this up.

Hello, thank you very much for your detailed response 


It was not the lower earnings limit, because I could work with that - it was that UC (migration line) told me that as my current PM role ends in April - I'll go into UC as "unemployed"
So when I get a new (what would be on ESA - PM) job, then it's classed as a "change" and will trigger me losing the transactional protection. 

poppy12345

samantham06 said:

huckster said:

In these circumstances I think it may be worth you contacting your local MP with a complaint about the DWP migration process.  Government is wanting those with health conditions to be in paid work and your example shows that the benefit arrangements are making this very difficult.  Ask your MP to pass this onto DWP and get DWP to write to you.

Which UC helpline did you call ? The normal UC number 0800 328 5644 or the UC migration helpline ?

I think what the UC helpline is saying may not be 100% correct. 

UC does not recognise permitted work, because UC has the Work Allowance. The Work Allowance is to encourage people to work.

Under UC, any earnings above the Work Allowance of £404 per monthly assessment period are subject to the taper rate i.e. 55p of UC is deducted for every £`1 over the £404.  

Please read the link below about transitional protection if not already done so. 

Transitional protection if you receive a Migration Notice letter - GOV.UK

As the transitional element added to UC claim is only about the core benefit entitlements before any deductions are made and deductions include one related to earnings, your main point is that you will receive less UC, because the Work Allowance is not as generous as PW.  Under PW you can earn up to £183.50 per week without it affecting ESA.

So you need to ask DWP via your MP to look at how DWP are protecting your income including benefits following this change and encouraging you to stay in employment.

Under UC as you will be in a no work related requirements category due to LCWRA(support group) you can attend University  as that it not an issue for UC. However for UC you would have to provide evidence that you are not entitled to student maintenance finance. UC takes into account student maintenance finance available, even if you did not take this up.

Hello, thank you very much for your detailed response 


It was not the lower earnings limit, because I could work with that - it was that UC (migration line) told me that as my current PM role ends in April - I'll go into UC as "unemployed"
So when I get a new (what would be on ESA - PM) job, then it's classed as a "change" and will trigger me losing the transactional protection. 

That isn't correct either. Starting a new job is not a change of circumstances that would end TP. See link. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transitional-protection-if-you-receive-a-migration-notice-letter#changes-that-end-transitional-protection



 

huckster

If you phoned the UC migration helpline, it Is very concerning if they are providing misleading information. You may help others and yourself if you took this up with DWP via your local MP.

Given that PW does not exist within UC legislation it would be totally irrelevant if the current PW ended.

TimeLord1

What ESA Support Group are you currently getting income related or contribution related + income related top up.

samantham06

TimeLord1 said:

What ESA Support Group are you currently getting income related or contribution related + income related top up.

Hello, I get contribution with income top up.

samantham06

huckster said:

If you phoned the UC migration helpline, it Is very concerning if they are providing misleading information. You may help others and yourself if you took this up with DWP via your local MP.

Given that PW does not exist within UC legislation it would be totally irrelevant if the current PW ended.

I may do, because I didn't need to be worried and nor do others. 
They were adamant going into new employment after being unemployed is a change that'll stop the transitional protection. Even a job under the earnings limit (which is considerably lower and unfair on its own - how can anyone find a job where you earn under £100 a week) it's hard enough with ESA PM limitations as it is 

samantham06

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I've not been able to take all of your post in properly but you've definitely been advised wrongly about your work. 

UC is actually better for work than ESA:

There are NO earnings or hours restrictions on UC, the only 'restriction' is earning so much that it would zero your UC claim.

You'll have a work allowance, which means they ignore the first £404 you earn before making deductions (which will be 55% of anything you earn above that).  I've inferred from the title that you claim HB which gives you that work allowance; if you don't claim help with housing costs it will be £673 per month instead.

There is a quirk that if your current earnings are above a certain threshold (the AET, which I think is £800-odd?) then drop below for 3 months you'd lost transitional protection, but I don't think that will apply to you because that's above the permitted work limits for ESA so your earnings cannot currently be that high for it to apply.

Changing jobs is not a change that would end your transitional protection.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection/when-will-my-universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection-end


The savings, my instinct is they should still be disregarded until June 2025 foot the same reason they are disregarded under ESA, but you should endeavour to put them into a trust fund by then if indeed that would mean they continue to be disregarded.  But others here will know for certain and be able to advise better than I can.

Thank you very much
I mean to get a trust fund open it just seems very hard to do. 

huckster

Untrained staff on helplines is not acceptable.

Given PW under ESA would not deduct anything from the ESA claim related to work earnings under the threshold, not doing PW while migrating to UC makes no odds. That should be obvious had they thought about it.

The LCWRA rate under UC is more than the support rate under ESA, so this may offset some of the potential reduction related to UC work allowance not being as generous as ESA PW.