What is reported?

soolin

Lindy52 said:

soolin said:

Lindy52 said:

I am declaring income. It's just that this is all clear as mud from any sources. How can they reconcile a January to Dec. Number to an April to April? I just don't understand it and if it doesn't match, then you get checked for something that clearly won't match. I know I'm being a bit snarky there as they will know it won't match so we all know it but then what purpose does it serve to work with two different dates? 

 And so the next question is the idea of working from April to April right? So do they work from April 2024 to April 2025 since this is beginning in 2024 or are they going back to 2023 to cover the April to April but then other countries may not work April to April, and they may not go back to 2023, I'd guess. 

I also saw one mention of two years of data but gosh that seems like a lot of data going to HMRC. And as this is a pilot year, that seems crazy with the amount of work and possible errors (and I imagine there will be errors from eBay, Etsy, vinted and any other source they're working with). So any credibility to this rumour?

It will all be searched by bits, and they can differentiate the income given into the correct years if needed. 

If you’re already keeping books and doing accounts you just carry on , the chances of them bothering you because the amounts don’t match exactly is unlikely. My own accounts for instance encompass more than one source, so what eBay declare for me won’t match at all. 

I do feel mildly concerned. My data is being shared, I'd like to know what that is, and as so far it's been clear as mud, eBay did a stupendous job of informing people so far this year with no emails and everyone is confused, scared, angry or have pitchforks out, I'd say there's a least a half decent reason to say this hasn't exactly been done in ways that fill me with confidence. 

Ebay make mistakes all the time and suddenly we can get hauled in if something is off? It's a first year and things are prone to not work.  We have no idea if they're collecting April 23 to April 24 (which deviates from the rest of the data being collected) or staying with only calendar year 2024 which won't match much for many reporting so what sense does it make collecting it. And all of this leads to confusion about what's sent, why and the fact that it's my data and why shouldn't I ask. And why are they not crystal clear so people know? This should be a very clear point. We are requesting this time frame with this information, month by month, or annual total, gross or net (how we define those). There are so many places for this to be confused, not match, screw up and the sense I get that it has that possibility is the really terrible communication that has so far confused a lot of people on so many levels for the last year. 

I think you are over complicating this , there have been endless emails and announcements about it, the press have covered it as well. Basically nothing has changed, if you’re a business you carry on reporting if not then it doesn’t matter.

if you see responses on here and on other threads I mentioned that traders don’t even need to have a 5th April year end, so no one is expecting eBay to be sending the exact figures that your books show. I can’t stress this enough, the reporting is just an en masse reporting, it has nothing to do with how you prepare your accounts and to what date. Don’t forget as well that traders have more than one way to do an accounting basis, eBay (and this applies to all sites) isn’t going to do your books for you. 

There are so many threads on here now that I’ve lost track, but RFW added a very good post about this. Online sites have always made ad hoc reports, HMRC ahave always been able to make ad hoc requests, that has been possible for years. Now just everything gets reported, private and business. If someone gets £69, 000 reported for online sales across 2 platforms for instance, and their books show just £1100 income then HMRC might query it , possibly not this year but certainly going forward. However if someone reports roughly the same level of income spreading over years then undoubtably it will be fine.

I can guarantee that my declared income from both online sales, and my other freelance job won’t match the amounts declared for me. My accounts basis and the declared basis are almost certainly not the same. 

Also this is not an eBay thing, it is an HMRC thing , so all online sites need to do it. 

Lindy52

That isn't accurate. I had no emails from eBay. Not a single one. 

What is rfw please?

I'm surprised people aren't more upset, though I do think some are. If we get council tax going up we want to know why, what it's for, etc, etc. but suddenly if eBay is sending data (yes it could be ad-hoc before but it's a change and it's new so could go foully wrong) and it's HMRC everyone is going around saying it's all ok. 

I'm not an anti vaxxer but I'm sure as that was new (and we had vaccines before) that those who still got it asked reasonable questions beforehand. Why is it suddenly in this instance reasonable questions are somehow seen as complicating things? And the lack of information to show people what's happening and an ability to have reasonable q and a for anything unclear isn't a problem? 

Lindy52

soolin said:

Lindy52 said:

Langerhan said:

This is something I've been following closely, and the reporting is done by calendar year. The UK is unusual in having a different financial year, so the OECD made the reporting 1 January-31 December 2024 because that's what makes sense for most of their member countries. The website you're using will sending HMRC a copy of the data and they'll also send you a copy so you'll see it then.

If you're a sole trader I'm guessing you've already got this information in your own records and can firmly ignore what eBay sends you anyway.

Do you know if it will go earlier than 2024? As I said we report for April 23 to April 24, so will they ask for data from April 23? Or do they have to stick with the same dates as done everywhere?

They have said in several announcements that they are reporting for different people at different times, starting with the newer registered eBay accounts.

Do you know dates? Is it only calendar year 2024 that they are starting with?

soolin

Lindy52 said:

That isn't accurate. I had no emails from eBay. Not a single one. 

What is rfw please?

I'm surprised people aren't more upset, though I do think some are. If we get council tax going up we want to know why, what it's for, etc, etc. but suddenly if eBay is sending data (yes it could be ad-hoc before but it's a change and it's new so could go foully wrong) and it's HMRC everyone is going around saying it's all ok. 

I'm not an anti vaxxer but I'm sure as that was new (and we had vaccines before) that those who still got it asked reasonable questions beforehand. Why is it suddenly in this instance reasonable questions are somehow seen as complicating things? And the lack of information to show people what's happening and an ability to have reasonable q and a for anything unclear isn't a problem? 

Firstly check your junk folder and your seller hub to ensure you have allowed notifications from ebay - they are quite useful to receive. What needs to be remembered  though is absolutely no changes have been made to the tax position, none at all. If you are already declaring your business then you just carry on. 

Incidentally the original announcements were made back in January 2024 and there have been updates in the press and on ebay since .

Just some of the things that were announced 

Seller-tax-information | eBay.co.uk

UK digital sales reporting | eBay

ebay linked to this Check if you need to tell HMRC about your income from online platforms - GOV.UK

and this
Information regarding UK digital sales reporting t... - UK eBay Community

Selling online & HMRC | UK Seller Centre

this is useful as well  Information for online sellers - GOV.UK

The press of course have covered it endlessly

New UK tax rules on side hustles like eBay and Vinted may lead to ‘nasty surprises’ | HMRC | The Guardian

there's an interesting fact check here that also brings in the worry from air BnB people  There’s no new tax rule for Vinted, Airbnb and eBay sellers – Full Fact

the list is endless.

soolin

Lindy52 said:

soolin said:

Lindy52 said:

Langerhan said:

This is something I've been following closely, and the reporting is done by calendar year. The UK is unusual in having a different financial year, so the OECD made the reporting 1 January-31 December 2024 because that's what makes sense for most of their member countries. The website you're using will sending HMRC a copy of the data and they'll also send you a copy so you'll see it then.

If you're a sole trader I'm guessing you've already got this information in your own records and can firmly ignore what eBay sends you anyway.

Do you know if it will go earlier than 2024? As I said we report for April 23 to April 24, so will they ask for data from April 23? Or do they have to stick with the same dates as done everywhere?

They have said in several announcements that they are reporting for different people at different times, starting with the newer registered eBay accounts.

Do you know dates? Is it only calendar year 2024 that they are starting with?

That appears to be the case, so the first tax year potentially an issue for anyone currently running an unregistered business is year end 5/4/2024. That doesn't mean though that HMRC can't go back to previous years if they 'catch' someone who hasn't been declaring a business up to that point. As has been said over and over again though HMNRC can't cope with all these returns, so once the machine checking has identified any potential major issues- they will almost certainly start with the big hitters first. 

RFW

Lindy52 said:

That isn't accurate. I had no emails from eBay. Not a single one. 

What is rfw please?

I'm surprised people aren't more upset, though I do think some are. If we get council tax going up we want to know why, what it's for, etc, etc. but suddenly if eBay is sending data (yes it could be ad-hoc before but it's a change and it's new so could go foully wrong) and it's HMRC everyone is going around saying it's all ok. 

I'm not an anti vaxxer but I'm sure as that was new (and we had vaccines before) that those who still got it asked reasonable questions beforehand. Why is it suddenly in this instance reasonable questions are somehow seen as complicating things? And the lack of information to show people what's happening and an ability to have reasonable q and a for anything unclear isn't a problem? 

That would be me.

I'll start that I'm not an expert or in the know so take anything I write as you will and if you're concerned about your own affairs contact HMRC or an accountant.

Anyway, HMRC have stated, several times, that there is no change in how they assess whether someone is a personal/private seller, and doesn't need to declare tax on sales, or a business.

Previously if someone was flagged up as not declaring tax they would have to go to Ebay, or any other marketplace where they were selling, and ask for that person's data. In theory they will no longer have to ask Ebay for the data as they will already have sent it to them, and they'll have it in a file somewhere. HMRC don't have the resources to go after people they suspect may have underpaid tiny amounts of tax. Most people have nothing to worry about, especially the ones who seem to be worried about it!

Lindy52

soolin said:

Lindy52 said:

soolin said:

Lindy52 said:

Langerhan said:

This is something I've been following closely, and the reporting is done by calendar year. The UK is unusual in having a different financial year, so the OECD made the reporting 1 January-31 December 2024 because that's what makes sense for most of their member countries. The website you're using will sending HMRC a copy of the data and they'll also send you a copy so you'll see it then.

If you're a sole trader I'm guessing you've already got this information in your own records and can firmly ignore what eBay sends you anyway.

Do you know if it will go earlier than 2024? As I said we report for April 23 to April 24, so will they ask for data from April 23? Or do they have to stick with the same dates as done everywhere?

They have said in several announcements that they are reporting for different people at different times, starting with the newer registered eBay accounts.

Do you know dates? Is it only calendar year 2024 that they are starting with?

That appears to be the case, so the first tax year potentially an issue for anyone currently running an unregistered business is year end 5/4/2024. That doesn't mean though that HMRC can't go back to previous years if they 'catch' someone who hasn't been declaring a business up to that point. As has been said over and over again though HMNRC can't cope with all these returns, so once the machine checking has identified any potential major issues- they will almost certainly start with the big hitters first. 

Yes, of course they can go back if they need to. It's a general understanding that they can. I'm wondering about this first year. If it's calendar year there's loads of sellers beginning in 2024 (past April) who don't have to report till January 2026. That's about 9 months worth of people that aren't entirely relevant to HMRC for now. And it seems this is the case in most information that it's new sellers, it's 2024 calendar year. But if 9 months isn't very relevant then we return to apr. To apr. Dates and then that's not as applicable for new sellers in 2024 as that's only three months if they became a seller in 2024. 

GadgetGuru

Lindy52 said:

Langerhan said:

This is something I've been following closely, and the reporting is done by calendar year. The UK is unusual in having a different financial year, so the OECD made the reporting 1 January-31 December 2024 because that's what makes sense for most of their member countries. The website you're using will sending HMRC a copy of the data and they'll also send you a copy so you'll see it then.

If you're a sole trader I'm guessing you've already got this information in your own records and can firmly ignore what eBay sends you anyway.

Do you know if it will go earlier than 2024? As I said we report for April 23 to April 24, so will they ask for data from April 23? Or do they have to stick with the same dates as done everywhere?

If you have a new account registered in 2024, then it will be from account registration. 
If you have an older account registered before 2024, then it will be from the start of 2025. 

You're NI number will be requested (if you fall into the older account category) as soon as you near either one of the two thresholds (£1750 in the year, or 30 items sold)

Hoenir

Lindy52 said:

I am declaring income. It's just that this is all clear as mud from any sources. How can they reconcile a January to Dec. Number to an April to April? I just don't understand it and if it doesn't match, then you get checked for something that clearly won't match. I know I'm being a bit snarky there as they will know it won't match so we all know it but then what purpose does it serve to work with two different dates? 

They are not reconciling anything. The data will be used to join dots. Remember they can access all nature of data from bank accounts, bank interest, credit cards, land registry , DVLA to name a few.  Patterns are easily detectable. Then they send the have you forgotten to tell us something letter ( a chance to voluntarily disclose).  Before they use their considerable powers to obtain their pound of flesh and more. Once penalties and interest are imposed on the tax due. 

The HMRC database system is called Connect for good reason.