Where should I put my radiator?

JadeHighland

We are changing up our living room. On the picture below where the cross is, we have the radiator in front of the bay window and in front of it the sofa which extend round the right wall. Would the best place for the radiator still be behind the sofa? Only other place it could really go is a vertical radiator in the bottom left or right corner of the lounge. 




New picture. Green Square is the TV and the brown square is the sofa. There is a gap in the bottom left and right corner for a vertical heater. 

singhini

i thought Radiators are typically placed under windows because this is usually the coldest area in a room, allowing the rising heat from the radiator to counteract the cold air drafts coming in through the window, particularly important in older homes with single-glazed windows; this creates a "warm curtain" of air near the window to maintain a more even room temperature.

i'm thinking of adding a wall mounted electric oil filled radiator to my living room for a bit of extra heat in these winter months (£200 - £300). i thought about adding an extra radiator but read on the internet that adding extra rads can stretch the capacity of the boiler and cause potential boiler overload if the existing boiler is too small to handle the additional heat demand. Also poor circulation in certain areas, and the need for system balancing to adjust water flow to all radiators properly needs to be considered. 

FreeBear

singhini said:

i thought Radiators are typically placed under windows because this is usually the coldest area in a room, allowing the rising heat from the radiator to counteract the cold air drafts coming in through the window, particularly important in older homes with single-glazed windows; this creates a "warm curtain" of air near the window to maintain a more even room temperature.

Tradition is indeed to put the radiator under a window for just the reason you give. However, if you have good quality draught free double glazing, cold air from the window is not so much of a problem. Having had new windows fitted here over the last couple of years, I've moved all my radiators to internal walls. Don't notice any chills or draughts from the windows

@JadeHighland - If I were doing it, I'd hang the radiator on the back wall opposite to the window. But you will be limited by where the pipes are. Presumably, they drop down from the ceiling in a corner of the room ?

JadeHighland

FreeBear said:

singhini said:

i thought Radiators are typically placed under windows because this is usually the coldest area in a room, allowing the rising heat from the radiator to counteract the cold air drafts coming in through the window, particularly important in older homes with single-glazed windows; this creates a "warm curtain" of air near the window to maintain a more even room temperature.

Tradition is indeed to put the radiator under a window for just the reason you give. However, if you have good quality draught free double glazing, cold air from the window is not so much of a problem. Having had new windows fitted here over the last couple of years, I've moved all my radiators to internal walls. Don't notice any chills or draughts from the windows

@JadeHighland - If I were doing it, I'd hang the radiator on the back wall opposite to the window. But you will be limited by where the pipes are. Presumably, they drop down from the ceiling in a corner of the room ?

They drop down from the ceiling and where that wall is opposite is where the TV is. 

FreeBear

JadeHighland said:

FreeBear said:

singhini said:

i thought Radiators are typically placed under windows because this is usually the coldest area in a room, allowing the rising heat from the radiator to counteract the cold air drafts coming in through the window, particularly important in older homes with single-glazed windows; this creates a "warm curtain" of air near the window to maintain a more even room temperature.

Tradition is indeed to put the radiator under a window for just the reason you give. However, if you have good quality draught free double glazing, cold air from the window is not so much of a problem. Having had new windows fitted here over the last couple of years, I've moved all my radiators to internal walls. Don't notice any chills or draughts from the windows

@JadeHighland - If I were doing it, I'd hang the radiator on the back wall opposite to the window. But you will be limited by where the pipes are. Presumably, they drop down from the ceiling in a corner of the room ?

They drop down from the ceiling and where that wall is opposite is where the TV is. 

Without knowing where your TV is in relation to the window or walls, I can't comment.

If you mark your drawing with the location of the pipes, that would help.

ThisIsWeird

FreeBear said:

JadeHighland said:

FreeBear said:

singhini said:

i thought Radiators are typically placed under windows because this is usually the coldest area in a room, allowing the rising heat from the radiator to counteract the cold air drafts coming in through the window, particularly important in older homes with single-glazed windows; this creates a "warm curtain" of air near the window to maintain a more even room temperature.

Tradition is indeed to put the radiator under a window for just the reason you give. However, if you have good quality draught free double glazing, cold air from the window is not so much of a problem. Having had new windows fitted here over the last couple of years, I've moved all my radiators to internal walls. Don't notice any chills or draughts from the windows

@JadeHighland - If I were doing it, I'd hang the radiator on the back wall opposite to the window. But you will be limited by where the pipes are. Presumably, they drop down from the ceiling in a corner of the room ?

They drop down from the ceiling and where that wall is opposite is where the TV is. 

Without knowing where your TV is in relation to the window or walls, I can't comment.

If you mark your drawing with the location of the pipes, that would help.

And add in the sofa and other furniture outlines too, please. And size and type of current rad. 
Does the rad heat up well - warm the room nicely? 

What Singhini cautioned about above, should anyone be thinking of adding an extra wet rad, 'could' be the individual case, but is highly unlikely to be. Most boilers have a very wide output range, and can take a few additional rads in their stride; you'd be extremely unlucky to have a boiler that has no additional capacity.
Given the make and model, and size of house, this should be easy to work out.
Yes, some system rebalancing may also be required, but even so it isn't really a valid reason to not continue with the much cheaper and effective gas 'wet' system, especially in your main living areas.
I personally wouldn't go to the stated cost of mounting an electric heater on the wall given its limited annual use and multi-times higher running cost, but would certainly consider dragging in a floor standing oil-filled rad from the garage for occasional backup if needed, which we have done for a chilly guest room - £50.
Another thing to consider if adding a secondary heat source like an electric heater, is that it will very likely interfere with the rest of the house's CH if the room stat is located there, and the main living space is usually the preferred location for the stat. What you will likely find is that the leccy heater will contribute (as it should) to the heating of that room, bringing it more quickly up to the required temp, and it'll then turn off the CH via the room stat. That will turn the gas system off sooner than it 'should', depriving the rest of the house of its CH. The 'system' will be led to believe it's done a crackin' job of heating the room and house, and will back off, leaving the leccy heater - at X3 the cost - to do more of the work.
If you have a 'living' space - sitting, dining, other reception - that is not being catered for adequately by your gas CH, then the best solution is an additional, or larger, wet rad. 

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said:

FreeBear said:

JadeHighland said:

FreeBear said:

singhini said:

i thought Radiators are typically placed under windows because this is usually the coldest area in a room, allowing the rising heat from the radiator to counteract the cold air drafts coming in through the window, particularly important in older homes with single-glazed windows; this creates a "warm curtain" of air near the window to maintain a more even room temperature.

Tradition is indeed to put the radiator under a window for just the reason you give. However, if you have good quality draught free double glazing, cold air from the window is not so much of a problem. Having had new windows fitted here over the last couple of years, I've moved all my radiators to internal walls. Don't notice any chills or draughts from the windows

@JadeHighland - If I were doing it, I'd hang the radiator on the back wall opposite to the window. But you will be limited by where the pipes are. Presumably, they drop down from the ceiling in a corner of the room ?

They drop down from the ceiling and where that wall is opposite is where the TV is. 

Without knowing where your TV is in relation to the window or walls, I can't comment.

If you mark your drawing with the location of the pipes, that would help.

What Singhini cautioned about above, should anyone be thinking of adding an extra wet rad, 'could' be the individual case, but is highly unlikely to be. Most boilers have a very wide output range, and can take a few additional rads in their stride; you'd be extremely unlucky to have a boiler that has no additional capacity.

If you have a combi boiler, it will have an output in the 24kW to 30kW range (bigger models available). A system (or heat only) boiler, quite possibly as small as 18kW, or if poorly specified, 30kW. An outside chance it might be a 12kW boiler.

According to Heat Geek, the average property only needs 6-8kW to heat up, so unless you have a massive property, the boiler is likely to be well oversized. Fitting new (or bigger) radiators is not going to stress the boiler. And if you have a condensing boiler, chances are, you can dial back the flow temperature to improve efficiency without affecting the speed at which the property heats up.

Got a 30kW combi boiler here with equipment to monitor just how much heat is being generated. Had some 11kW (rated output at 70°C flow) of radiators, and recently added another ~1.5kW to the system. Most of the time, the boiler is generating just 4-6kW of heat, and barely noticed the extra 1.5kW.

The limiting factor to adding extra radiators to any system is the size of pipes - Small pipes are limited in how much water can pass through which in turn places a limit on how much heat can be carried. If you have microbore plumbing, you're basically stuffed. 28/22/15mm pipework gives you much more scope to add extra radiators.

Albermarle

 A system (or heat only) boiler, quite possibly as small as 18kW, or if poorly specified, 30kW. An outside chance it might be a 12kW boiler.

According to Heat Geek, the average property only needs 6-8kW to heat up, so unless you have a massive property, the boiler is likely to be well oversized. Fitting new (or bigger) radiators is not going to stress the boiler.

I have a bit larger than average 4 bed semi, with 13 radiators and an 18 Kw system boiler. Currently they are all on first thing in the morning, and the hot water is on ( which uses about 3KW I think ?) and they are all properly hot within 15/20 minutes, so it seems to easily cope.

JadeHighland

FreeBear said:

JadeHighland said:

FreeBear said:

singhini said:

i thought Radiators are typically placed under windows because this is usually the coldest area in a room, allowing the rising heat from the radiator to counteract the cold air drafts coming in through the window, particularly important in older homes with single-glazed windows; this creates a "warm curtain" of air near the window to maintain a more even room temperature.

Tradition is indeed to put the radiator under a window for just the reason you give. However, if you have good quality draught free double glazing, cold air from the window is not so much of a problem. Having had new windows fitted here over the last couple of years, I've moved all my radiators to internal walls. Don't notice any chills or draughts from the windows

@JadeHighland - If I were doing it, I'd hang the radiator on the back wall opposite to the window. But you will be limited by where the pipes are. Presumably, they drop down from the ceiling in a corner of the room ?

They drop down from the ceiling and where that wall is opposite is where the TV is. 

Without knowing where your TV is in relation to the window or walls, I can't comment.

If you mark your drawing with the location of the pipes, that would help.

Thanks. Added picture in the OP

ThisIsWeird

JadeHighland said:

Thanks. Added picture in the OP

And size and type of current rad. Photo?

Does the rad heat up well - warm the room nicely?

Anyhoo, a couple of column rads could fit here, I'd have thought, and not be too complex to plumb in:

Or, what's on the wall to your left as you come in that top door?

JadeHighland

ThisIsWeird said:

JadeHighland said:

Thanks. Added picture in the OP

And size and type of current rad. Photo?

Does the rad heat up well - warm the room nicely?

Anyhoo, a couple of column rads could fit here, I'd have thought, and not be too complex to plumb in:

Or, what's on the wall to your left as you come in that top door?

Current length is about 2m and goes across the entire bay of the window. Heating up, it does a decent job but I only say decent because our windows are very ill fitted. I think once we get those replaced, it will be more than fine. I also remember when we had the old boiled with no thermostat, the room would get quite hot (the entire house would just keep getting hotter to like 28 degrees). The left wall in the hallway and near the stairs, there is a radiator.