Paying Engery Bill

ValerieJ1999

I live on a residential park home site in Kent. I have lived here for 4 years, starting in May 2021. Our contract states that we are responsible for our gas bill, but our electric and water bills are on sub-meters, and the landlord will bill us every 1/4.
The site has been here since 2018, with 15 occupied homes. No one has paid for electricity or water since they moved in, and the landlord says he is getting it sorted with the providers. We have no idea who that is or what the unit cost is, and no matter how many times we speak to him, he never comes through with any information. We want to get this sorted as soon as possible, but most other residents believe he can't suddenly present us with a bill dated from when we moved it so as not to worry about it and "leave sleeping dogs lie."
My question is, "What is our legal position on this?
1. Can he present us with a bill from the day we moved in, and do we have to pay it
2. As he is in breach of contract, can we refuse to pay the full amount, and would this have to go to court?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

MattMattMattUK

ValerieJ1999 said:

I live on a residential park home site in Kent. I have lived here for 4 years, starting in May 2021. Our contract states that we are responsible for our gas bill, but our electric and water bills are on sub-meters, and the landlord will bill us every 1/4.
The site has been here since 2018, with 15 occupied homes. No one has paid for electricity or water since they moved in, and the landlord says he is getting it sorted with the providers. We have no idea who that is or what the unit cost is, and no matter how many times we speak to him, he never comes through with any information. We want to get this sorted as soon as possible, but most other residents believe he can't suddenly present us with a bill dated from when we moved it so as not to worry about it and "leave sleeping dogs lie."
My question is, "What is our legal position on this?
1. Can he present us with a bill from the day we moved in, and do we have to pay it

That entirely depends on the contract as he is not a domestic energy supplier. 

ValerieJ1999 said:

2. As he is in breach of contract, can we refuse to pay the full amount,

You can, but that that may have consequences, including him refusing to renew your lease. 

ValerieJ1999 said:

and would this have to go to court?

It would not have to go to court, it could go to court who, depending on the contract they would either enforce it in full and issue a CCJ, or uphold part of the amount. 

ValerieJ1999 said:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I presume you have been putting money aside each month/quarter to cover this? If so then you should all have funds to pay the relevant bill when it does come in.

QrizB

I'm happy to be corrected but I think the Limitation Act prevents the courts from enforcing private debts that are more than six years old? So 2018s debt is already out of time?

Of course you might choose to pay it anyway, to avoid hassle from your landlord.

tim_p

Have you been putting any money aside in a savings account to be ready for the inevitable?

MattMattMattUK

QrizB said:

I'm happy to be corrected but I think the Limitation Act prevents the courts from enforcing private debts that are more than six years old? So 2018s debt is already out of time?

Of course you might choose to pay it anyway, to avoid hassle from your landlord.

The OP has only been there since May 2021, so whilst that might apply to some of the others it will not apply to them. 

QrizB

MattMattMattUK said:

QrizB said:

I'm happy to be corrected but I think the Limitation Act prevents the courts from enforcing private debts that are more than six years old? So 2018s debt is already out of time?

Of course you might choose to pay it anyway, to avoid hassle from your landlord.

The OP has only been there since May 2021, so whilst that might apply to some of the others it will not apply to them. 

Yes, I was thinking of the longer-term residents. OP seems to be in contact with them!

Scot_39

ValerieJ1999 said:

I live on a residential park home site in Kent. I have lived here for 4 years, starting in May 2021. Our contract states that we are responsible for our gas bill, but our electric and water bills are on sub-meters, and the landlord will bill us every 1/4.
The site has been here since 2018, with 15 occupied homes. No one has paid for electricity or water since they moved in, and the landlord says he is getting it sorted with the providers. We have no idea who that is or what the unit cost is, and no matter how many times we speak to him, he never comes through with any information. We want to get this sorted as soon as possible, but most other residents believe he can't suddenly present us with a bill dated from when we moved it so as not to worry about it and "leave sleeping dogs lie."
My question is, "What is our legal position on this?
1. Can he present us with a bill from the day we moved in, and do we have to pay it
2. As he is in breach of contract, can we refuse to pay the full amount, and would this have to go to court?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hopefully gas includes heating, hot water and cooking, so the majority of your energy bills.

Depends on what your contract says about what would happen after a bill not issued (it probably wont *) or once issued what the payment terms and nominally any default period therein.

(*)  Missing target invoicing dates in a commercial contract can have an invalidating action -  but that would be written into contracts -  especially so and common for in contract delay charges and order variations. But wouldn't expect similar in a domestic contract.

So the missing series of quarterly bills is interesting but suspect maybe no limitation legally to your debt levels.

These days on a normal domestic supply (like your gas?) you would now likely benefit from Ofgems 12 month backbilling protection - came in c2018 - but before that suppliers could and did go back years. (2.5 yrs in mum's case after billing errors)
And that won't necessarily be part of your landlords likely commercial contract - but  it does aply to microbusinesses iirc if they qualify as such.   

But if your landlord has been billed but not passed the charges on - unless lease protects you - leaves maybe just statute barred protection(*)

So I think residents might be being optimistic thinking no bills to date means no debt.

As your landlord has told you he is still sorting bills with his supplier - he cannot bill you correctly until he, well they as a business in all likelihood - have their bills and rates sorted.

There are debt experts on the debt free wannabe section of the forum - one might answer here but you could post their as well.

(*) And even if for some - but not you as youve only been there 3.5 plus years - a small part of the debt covered under the statute barred period of the limitation act - which is a minimum of 6 years from "serviceable" / "default" date iirc in England (not bill date) for simple debts.

And that  IIRC just stops court action - it doesn't stop other civil attempts at recovery despite making it unenforcable by court or court authorised bailiffs etc - or the debt left standing on your credit file - stopping you getting credit elsewhere.

See e.g. 

https://nationaldebtline.org/get-information/guides/statute-barred-debts-ew/#:~:text=The Limitation Act says that,take court action against you.



You really need to 

A) take proper legal advice or at least talk to citizens advice or a debt charity helpline with your specific lease / contracts.

It is extremely easy to listen to an amateur opinion on things like debt that sounds lije beneficial to you / helps you - but when wrong it is no defense in a court of law.

Let others make assumptions - protect your own finances - your neighbours won't pay your bills or suffer from  your loss of credit worthiness.

Or simpler 

B ) set aside / save the money to pay for these bills if can until the matter is resolved.

The problem is that you don't as you say know the rates as likely a commercial supply. 
But I'd aim for Ofgem cap as a minimum rate - and I mean Ofgem cap not the heavily EPG discounted - so the upto c70p/kWh electric at crisis peak - not the c35p post the c18p/34p/19p EPG discounted rates per kWh.

The rates on commercial deals can be in near real time - some making press headlines were spot or week ahead supply - or lag with fixed terms with initial prices - some with heavy pass through charges  or in some ways worse catch up post event  recovery payment clauses - some over 12-24m).  It might be your landlord might still be waiting on final final rates for latest bills.  But really struggling to see any excuse for missing 6 year old ones.

They might not ever issue older ones - writing them off as a business as it were - but I wouldnt personally rely on it.

But if they do get to grip with them as well as more recent ones - I suspect - or rather fear for those not setting money aside - they could stand.