Advice to prepare very clayey sloped land for growing on?

-taff

No idea about drainage sorry but if you dig and stack upside down,the grass on top which is now underneath won't grow back,but any bits at the side or other weed seeds will germinate unless you keep on top of it.Bare earth is like a red rag for nature,itl ikes to fill it with something,so fill it first...

GervisLooper

-taff said:

No idea about drainage sorry but if you dig and stack upside down,the grass on top which is now underneath won't grow back,but any bits at the side or other weed seeds will germinate unless you keep on top of it.Bare earth is like a red rag for nature,itl ikes to fill it with something,so fill it first...

Oh I meant that I would plant vegetable crops after not just leave it bare.As per this auld fella's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqabt6z0sm8

As such the vegetables should out compete, or at least mostly, the weeds shouldn't they?

You can hear how rushy that ground is from the acute teeeaar when he digs in and he flips the sods over and notes that is a traditional way of doing it.

ArbitraryRandom

Sure. Any issues you have will be in the middle where you're just burying the grasses rather than digging them out, but it'd likely be manageable.

Also I'd maybe not recommend root veg like carrots or parsnips, or maybe only at the edges - again because there's still a dense mat of roots unbroken again in the middle and they do better in loose earth.

Potatoes are supposed to be good because they break up/force open the soil as the tubers grow (and they like to be wet).

Have you done a soil test btw? You can get kits online and not essential but might give you a bit of an idea of what you're working with - basic kits just test pH, but they can also test nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (the major minerals that determine how well a plant will grow).  

GervisLooper

ArbitraryRandom said:

Sure. Any issues you have will be in the middle where you're just burying the grasses rather than digging them out, but it'd likely be manageable.

Also I'd maybe not recommend root veg like carrots or parsnips, or maybe only at the edges - again because there's still a dense mat of roots unbroken again in the middle and they do better in loose earth.

Potatoes are supposed to be good because they break up/force open the soil as the tubers grow (and they like to be wet).

Have you done a soil test btw? You can get kits online and not essential but might give you a bit of an idea of what you're working with - basic kits just test pH, but they can also test nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (the major minerals that determine how well a plant will grow).  

No not yet. Might be a good idea as I read that clay soil can be good in that it retains minerals so if I found that the stuff I already have has some good content would say me a lot of trouble getting outside fertilizer in! I also have some nice leaf mould under a big willow tree, which I have read is good, which is probably about 1ft or more thick under the tree.

GervisLooper

ArbitraryRandom said:

If you have clay soil, then the issue will be the water from above your land running over the clay rather than soaking away - which trenches can still help with as they can 'catch' the water at the top of the slope and either allow it to soak away (because you've dug below the clay layer) or redirect it to the bottom of your land. 

French drain style: 

Then you can focus on establishing your beds and improving the soil quality in the areas you want to grow while still having firm/drier footing between them. 

I still don't really understand how this works.

I mean yes I know the theory but I have no idea how much of the water on the land below is from further above the hill vs. how much is just settled rainwater? How do I figure that out? If the latter, which I suspect it is how do you then drain that? Would I have to put loads of ditches through the whole field?

Also with the clay having accumulated for years isn't drainage just going to be a drop in the ocean since the clay is mostly impermeable?

GervisLooper

Still trying to figure out how I should arrange drains on the field? Will making just a single deep cut off drain at the top of the field, which is sloped, be sufficienct - with some route for it to go to the bottom - or would I probably have to make several every x meters down the incline of the whole field?

The landscape is such that it is like two breasts, for want of a better explanation, with a cleave in the middle where the natural spring exits at the top and runs through that dip to the bottom.

Actually one mound is probably lower than the other but the higher mound seems drier, so is that probably because the 'water table' flows under it to an extent? It is wetter once you get lower and over the mound.

The lower mound on the other hand is probably one of the worst parts of the whole field. It is really boggy round here. As it is on a mound I am wondering where the best place is to place the ditch/es as in where to lay and then where to direct since it is like a gentle dome shape.

Is the rule of thumb just to look where the wettest parts are and make the trenches there and direct them to where they can exit the field or should I attempt to make the drains above, as with the top deep cut-off?

GervisLooper

RAS said:

You drain land by intercepting the water at the top edge. Are you able to get into the fields above yours and alongside and check what's happening with the field ditches there? Once upon a time failing to clean your ditches before the autumn rains could attract a fine, but that ceased decades ago.

Water from your land may have been drained via land to the side if the upper edge slopes down, or via ditches down the side of your field? Where would water run when it leaves at the bottom edge? Is there anywhere sensible where you can add a catchment pond?

If the clay at the top is over very dry ground, before you consider breaking the pan, talk to someone knowledgeable aboutthe local geology. You could end up disturbing the entire slope and causing a slide. 

Next summer, mow or graze close and look for greener patches to identify possible springs?

hi plz could you comment on my above post.

GervisLooper

I am confused now. I have tried making parts of cut off ditch in places at the top and when I come back to check them they just pool there so what use is that?

That is a worse version of what is already happening with all the puddles on the land.

I get that it has to drain off somewhere but since the top edge is fairly flat I don't get how it is supposed to run off.

If I am expected to make the ditch deeper and deeper until it hits a right angle to go down the field that is going to  be tough since it is generally so flat and the decline parts are 50-100ft away so it could mean digging up to 2+ meters to keep it flowing on the cut off!

RAS

Having read some of your other threads, I suspect you need to think a bit more about your plans.

Agricultural land cannot be turned into a vegetable garden without planning permission for change of use. and you'd have to be very careful about putting a van on there without PP. I'd also suggest you avoid nice shiny new sheds or huts. You might get away occasional stopovers or storing the van when not used, more depends on the local authority and people turning a blind eye. And you've got short tail voles who love roots. Seen rows of broad beans keel over because they've taken out everything 30mm down and left tunnels.

What is the access like, as you've suggest 400m from anywhere material can be dropped?

GervisLooper

RAS said:

What is the access like, as you've suggest 400m from anywhere material can be dropped?

Don't know what this is referring to. Don't recall having written that.