NI Shortfall of almost 8k - Disabled and on ESA/PIP

Anomnomnomaly

I've been ill and disabled for a very long time, and my earnings basically ceased in 2010, I've been on incapacity benefit and was transferred from IB to ESA and was one of those people wrongly placed in the incorrect group to save the govt money... that they eventually lost many judicial reviews over and had to repay some 200k people they'd deliberately put into extreme poverty and destitution.

I heard something about your NI contributions from 2006-20016 being extended for tops until 2025, and thought I should check mine.

Whilst there's a couple of years from 2006 to 2010 that have a shortfall (intermittent working due to declining health) it's only a few hundred quid.

But when I was moved from IB to ESA, every year since has around an £800 shortfall. This adds up to almost £8000.

Each year has only 35 weeks of NI credits, all of the years I was on IB have 52... As far as I am aware, I'm supposed to be getting 52 from 2013-2014 onwards when the switch happened.

It was around 2018 when I was placed into the correct ESA support group and from mid 2017 I started getting PIP as well.

Whilst I'm not going to be claiming my state pension for a further 15yrs, there no chance of my health improving, it will slowly decline... I'm very concerned that I won't be able to get a full state pension and my private pension was started later in my 30's, and I stopped paying into that in 2010 too. Current predictions for my private pension are less than £1000 a year.

So I'll be entirely reliant on the state pension.

I can't find information on NI credits or what I should be getting, or how this would affect my state pension. What I can find is vague and confusing and fails to answer anything about my actual position.

I don't know if this is an error that's happened because of the way IB/ESA people were treated and denied what they were actually entitled too or if I somehow need to find that 8k myself (impossible as my income doesn't allow me to save that kind of amount)

Any advice would be most grateful. I'm in Wales and have no citizens advice anywhere near me. I used to get help from a community law service when I lived in England.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Anomnomnomaly said:

I've been ill and disabled for a very long time, and my earnings basically ceased in 2010, I've been on incapacity benefit and was transferred from IB to ESA and was one of those people wrongly placed in the incorrect group to save the govt money... that they eventually lost many judicial reviews over and had to repay some 200k people they'd deliberately put into extreme poverty and destitution.

I heard something about your NI contributions from 2006-20016 being extended for tops until 2025, and thought I should check mine.

Whilst there's a couple of years from 2006 to 2010 that have a shortfall (intermittent working due to declining health) it's only a few hundred quid.

But when I was moved from IB to ESA, every year since has around an £800 shortfall. This adds up to almost £8000.

Each year has only 35 weeks of NI credits, all of the years I was on IB have 52... As far as I am aware, I'm supposed to be getting 52 from 2013-2014 onwards when the switch happened.

It was around 2018 when I was placed into the correct ESA support group and from mid 2017 I started getting PIP as well.

Whilst I'm not going to be claiming my state pension for a further 15yrs, there no chance of my health improving, it will slowly decline... I'm very concerned that I won't be able to get a full state pension and my private pension was started later in my 30's, and I stopped paying into that in 2010 too. Current predictions for my private pension are less than £1000 a year.

So I'll be entirely reliant on the state pension.

I can't find information on NI credits or what I should be getting, or how this would affect my state pension. What I can find is vague and confusing and fails to answer anything about my actual position.

I don't know if this is an error that's happened because of the way IB/ESA people were treated and denied what they were actually entitled too or if I somehow need to find that 8k myself (impossible as my income doesn't allow me to save that kind of amount)

Any advice would be most grateful. I'm in Wales and have no citizens advice anywhere near me. I used to get help from a community law service when I lived in England.

I think the most useful starting point is what does your forecast show you have already accrued so far?

You fall under transitional rules so there are no set number of years needed to reach what is almost certainly your Personal maximum of £221.20/week.

On your State Pension forecast it will probably say your forecast amount is £221.20/week and then under that have a second amount of what you are entitled to based on your current NI record.  Which may in itself be wrong but that second figure is a very useful bit of information as it helps to show exactly how many more qualifying years you need to add, rather than can add.

Anomnomnomaly

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I think the most useful starting point is what does your forecast show you have already accrued so far?

You fall under transitional rules so there are no set number of years needed to reach what is almost certainly your Personal maximum of £221.20/week.

On your State Pension forecast it will probably say your forecast amount is £221.20/week and then under that have a second amount of what you are entitled to based on your current NI record.  Which may in itself be wrong but that second figure is a very useful bit of information as it helps to show exactly how many more qualifying years you need to add, rather than can add.

OK, so I didn't know I could check my state pension forecast which is late 2039, and it's saying that I have to contribute another 6yrs of NI to qualify for the full state pension, and that right now my SP would be around £185 a week.

What I'm unsure if I understand... is that 6yrs of 52 weeks a year, or 6yrs x52 over the next 15yrs?

I have around 23yrs of full NI and a few partial ones up to 2013 (shortfalls of about £300 total), it's only the last 9yrs from 2014 onwards that show a shortfall of over £800 for each year.

If it's a total of 6x52 (which would be fine with the current 35 NI credits a year it says I'm getting) I'm good... It just doesn't actually inform you of that.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Anomnomnomaly said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I think the most useful starting point is what does your forecast show you have already accrued so far?

You fall under transitional rules so there are no set number of years needed to reach what is almost certainly your Personal maximum of £221.20/week.

On your State Pension forecast it will probably say your forecast amount is £221.20/week and then under that have a second amount of what you are entitled to based on your current NI record.  Which may in itself be wrong but that second figure is a very useful bit of information as it helps to show exactly how many more qualifying years you need to add, rather than can add.

OK, so I didn't know I could check my state pension forecast which is late 2039, and it's saying that I have to contribute another 6yrs of NI to qualify for the full state pension, and that right now my SP would be around £185 a week.

What I'm unsure if I understand... is that 6yrs of 52 weeks a year, or 6yrs x52 over the next 15yrs?

I have around 23yrs of full NI and a few partial ones up to 2013 (shortfalls of about £300 total), it's only the last 9yrs from 2014 onwards that show a shortfall of over £800 for each year.

If it's a total of 6x52 (which would be fine with the current 35 NI credits a year it says I'm getting) I'm good... It just doesn't actually inform you of that.

Partial years don't count for anything, if you have already built up £185.00 then you need 6 complete years to reach £221.20.

The first five (post 2016) years will each add £6.32/week and the final one the remaining £4.60.

However, from what you've posted something does seem odd and I think you need to get to the bottom of the 35 weeks aspect before worrying about paying anything.

Can you post the full details as it might be a pre 2016 year could add value, especially if it only needs a very small payment from you.  The issue here is time is against you to know exactly where you stand before the deadline for buying those early years comes round (April 2025).

Anomnomnomaly

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Partial years don't count for anything, if you have already built up £185.00 then you need 6 complete years to reach £221.20.

The first five (post 2016) years will each add £6.32/week and the final one the remaining £4.60.

However, from what you've posted something does seem odd and I think you need to get to the bottom of the 35 weeks aspect before worrying about paying anything.

Can you post the full details as it might be a pre 2016 year could add value, especially if it only needs a very small payment from you.  The issue here is time is against you to know exactly where you stand before the deadline for buying those early years comes round (April 2025).

I did a quick screen cap

Up to the end of the 2012/2013 tax year, it says full year and 52 weeks creidt, the 2013/2014 year says 35 weeks credit.

But I didn't notice that for every year afterwards, since being placed on ESA... there are no mentions of any NI credits at all. I didn't see that before.

This must be some kind of error, I've been in reciept of ESA both income related (in error) from towards the end of 2013 to Jan 2018, when I was correctly placed into the ESA support group and the backdated money paid for those 4yrs.

I'm making assumptions here... but 17 weeks shortfall in the 2013-2014 year... is about the time from the switch to ESA from IB... and it appears I've never received a single credit since.

Every year from 2014 onwards shows an £824.20 shortfall, with 2023-2024 showing a £907.40 shortfalll... isn't that when the NI contributions increased?

That's got to be an error... right?  I'm entitled to NI credits... I've just not been getting them at all since they moved me from IB to ESA.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Anomnomnomaly said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Partial years don't count for anything, if you have already built up £185.00 then you need 6 complete years to reach £221.20.

The first five (post 2016) years will each add £6.32/week and the final one the remaining £4.60.

However, from what you've posted something does seem odd and I think you need to get to the bottom of the 35 weeks aspect before worrying about paying anything.

Can you post the full details as it might be a pre 2016 year could add value, especially if it only needs a very small payment from you.  The issue here is time is against you to know exactly where you stand before the deadline for buying those early years comes round (April 2025).

I did a quick screen cap

Up to the end of the 2012/2013 tax year, it says full year and 52 weeks creidt, the 2013/2014 year says 35 weeks credit.

But I didn't notice that for every year afterwards, since being placed on ESA... there are no mentions of any NI credits at all. I didn't see that before.

This must be some kind of error, I've been in reciept of ESA both income related (in error) from towards the end of 2013 to Jan 2018, when I was correctly placed into the ESA support group and the backdated money paid for those 4yrs.

I'm making assumptions here... but 17 weeks shortfall in the 2013-2014 year... is about the time from the switch to ESA from IB... and it appears I've never received a single credit since.

Every year from 2014 onwards shows an £824.20 shortfall, with 2023-2024 showing a £907.40 shortfalll... isn't that when the NI contributions increased?

That's got to be an error... right?  I'm entitled to NI credits... I've just not been getting them at all since they moved me from IB to ESA.

That puts a slightly different complexion on things.  

I wonder if the issue discussed here might be what you are encountering?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-11513199/DWP-HMRC-come-clean-missing-state-pension-credits.html

I would say DWP is your first part of call to try and get to the bottom of this.  If you are entitled to credits from 2014 onwards then it is unlikely you will need to buy any weeks/years to reach your maximum of £221.20/week (£230.25 from April).

Anomnomnomaly

Wow... that article is already over 2yrs old and can't offer any explanation why those credits weren't added... and the DWP can't or won't say how many have been affected.

I think I'll email my MP, she helped me recently with another DWP issue where I tried for 10 weeks to simply speak to a person to get my PIP award letter sorted so that I could get a replacement blue disabled badge that expired in mid Oct and has left me unable to get out and about properly for 3 months because of parking issues... If I can't park close to where I need to go, I can't go at all unless I pay for taxis and that gets really expensive when you're kinda rural like I am.

Northern_Wanderer

Those 6 years, you will have the next 15 years to make them up with credits. However, you should be getting the full year of NI credits whilst on ESA. You can write to HMRC

What to write in your letter

Explain why you think your record is wrong and include copies of any evidence you have. Evidence could include things like payslips or a P60 that show the National Insurance you've paid.

Post the letter at the Post Office and ask them for proof of postage - you might need to prove when you sent it. Send it to:

HMRC National Insurance Contributions and Employer Office

HM Revenue and Customs

BX9 1AN

You can call the National Insurance Contributions Office on 0300 200 3500 if you'd prefer.

Calls cost up to 12p a minute from landlines and up to 45p a minute from mobiles. It should be free if you call from your mobile and have landline calls included in your contract.

Make a note of the date and time you call the office. Also write down the name of the person you spoke to. You might need these details if you need to prove you contacted them.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Northern_Wanderer said:

Those 6 years, you will have the next 15 years to make them up with credits. However, you should be getting the full year of NI credits whilst on ESA. You can write to HMRC

What to write in your letter

Explain why you think your record is wrong and include copies of any evidence you have. Evidence could include things like payslips or a P60 that show the National Insurance you've paid.

Post the letter at the Post Office and ask them for proof of postage - you might need to prove when you sent it. Send it to:

HMRC National Insurance Contributions and Employer Office

HM Revenue and Customs

BX9 1AN

You can call the National Insurance Contributions Office on 0300 200 3500 if you'd prefer.

Calls cost up to 12p a minute from landlines and up to 45p a minute from mobiles. It should be free if you call from your mobile and have landline calls included in your contract.

Make a note of the date and time you call the office. Also write down the name of the person you spoke to. You might need these details if you need to prove you contacted them.

I don't think writing to HMRC will really help in this instance.

The additional years which are missing seemingly relate to credits from being eligible for a benefit administered by DWP.

squirrelpie

Maybe there might be more help on the Benefits board than here? It also sounds like it might be worth contacting This Is Money as you seem to have a similar problem to those discussed in the article, and they seem to have been able to get at least some action from the government. Send your MP a letter too.

Northern_Wanderer

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

Those 6 years, you will have the next 15 years to make them up with credits. However, you should be getting the full year of NI credits whilst on ESA. You can write to HMRC

What to write in your letter

Explain why you think your record is wrong and include copies of any evidence you have. Evidence could include things like payslips or a P60 that show the National Insurance you've paid.

Post the letter at the Post Office and ask them for proof of postage - you might need to prove when you sent it. Send it to:

HMRC National Insurance Contributions and Employer Office

HM Revenue and Customs

BX9 1AN

You can call the National Insurance Contributions Office on 0300 200 3500 if you'd prefer.

Calls cost up to 12p a minute from landlines and up to 45p a minute from mobiles. It should be free if you call from your mobile and have landline calls included in your contract.

Make a note of the date and time you call the office. Also write down the name of the person you spoke to. You might need these details if you need to prove you contacted them.

I don't think writing to HMRC will really help in this instance.

The additional years which are missing seemingly relate to credits from being eligible for a benefit administered by DWP.

The info supplied is from a credible source which states to contact HMRC, it also states that if HMRC do not amend the credits, to challenge the decision at HMRC.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/if-a-problem-with-national-insurance-is-affecting-your-benefits/