Parking Admin Centre - PCN appeal reply

Curious_Sleepy_Head

Hi All,

As a newbie to PCNs and to the Forum, I recently appealed against a PCN received in the Epping Underground Station Car Park, using the advice on the Newbies thread.  Parking Admin Centre replied with the following email (in Italics below). My appeal text is below the reply by Parking Admin Centre' . What would you recommend as the best next step here? 


Parking Admin Centre's reply: 

Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

Please note, the Parking Charge is PoFA compliant as it was sent within 14 days of the contravention.

The contravention occurred on 12 December 2024 and we had sent the initial notification on 20 December 2024.

Please be advised, we can only process an appeal from the driver on the day.

Please have the driver appeal with their full name and serviceable address within 7 days of the date of this email.

Appeal text:

You issued me with a parking ticket for alleged breach of terms on the 12th December 2024 but I believe it was issued unfairly and unlawfully. I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.

I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I plan to make a formal complaint about your conduct towards clients to the landowner and to my MP.

I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. There will be no admissions as to who was driving the vehicle and no assumptions can be drawn. 

Please consider the following grounds for the appeal, without prejudice:

1.    The notice to keeper is not compliant

The Notice to Keeper failed to meet the obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

The letter arrived today, on the 2nd January 2025. Allowing 2 business days for delivery, the letter would have been posted on 30th December 2024, which falls outside the 14 days window from the alleged contravention date, clearly stated in the regulations as requirement for the notice to be served.

Seeing the date of issue of the Notice indicated as 20th December 2024, this raises grounds for questioning the letter’s contents factual integrity and the postal services you use (C9 10002).

Moreover, the notice is not compliant with other requirements indicated in Schedule 4, paragraph 9 of Protection of Freedoms Act.

2.    Railway land is not “relevant land”

Railway land is not ‘Relevant Land’ for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and therefore, there is no keeper liability.

3.    I dispute your authority from the landowner for issuing parking charge notices

It is my belief that neither Parking Admin Centre nor SABA Park Services UK Limited have proprietary interest in the land. If you disagree, please provide relevant proof of this in the form of an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

 

4.    No evidence to show who the driver was.

You have not provided any evidence to show who the driver was. A disclosure and naming of a driver within an appeal lodged by a third party who was neither the driver, registered keeper or hirer cannot be held to be strict evidence. In order to pursue a driver for an unpaid charge, there must either be an admittance by the driver or some other form of independent evidence to substantiate the claim. Of course, with Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 held not to be in force, the naming of the driver, either by admission or otherwise, is irrelevant.

If Parking Admin Centre or SABA Park Services UK Limited disagree, please provide the evidence to the contrary.

5.    The parking charge is disproportionate, unfair and not commercially justifiable.

The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

In this case, the £100 charge you are asking for, far exceeds the cost to the landowner or lost earnings, in the context of the already excessive daily parking fee being £10. I therefore insist that the charge you have asked for is too excessive.

With the above in mind, please can you cancel the Notice of Parking Charge referenced above.

Gr1pr

Please post redacted pictures of both sides of the pcn letter, redacting your name and address and the VRM details,  , plus redact the pcn reference too

The first question that comes to mind is,  is it actually railway land   ?  Which TOC  ?

Normally we would advise to not reply,  not name the driver,  regardless of their request

Parking Charge Notice   ?  Or Penalty Notice 

Is SABA involved   ?

Curious_Sleepy_Head

Thank you - here they are:

Gr1pr

So, it's a Parking Charge Notice,  PCN,  by SABA on behalf of TfL ( which is what I thought it might be   ) at Epping Main

Parking Admin Centre is just the address

POFA 2012 schedule 4 doesn't apply on railway land 

Previous similar SABA case threads below 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6560660/parking-charge-from-saba

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6531000/parking-fine/p1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6577978/saba-railway-penalty-notice-appeal-popla

No blabbing about who was driving 

Curious_Sleepy_Head

Appreciate the explanation. Should I be asking them to submit evidence regarding Railway land and authority from the landowner for issuing parking charge notices? 
I am concerned about the 7 days period indicated in the email reply. ..

Gr1pr

There reply indicates that they will only accept an appeal by the driver,  so they rejected your keeper appeal and asked for the drivers details,  presumably they failed to issue a popla code an IMHO its not relevant land so posting the pcn within the first 8 to 12 days is irrelevant anyway 

I wouldn't be providing them with driver details 

KeithP

Confirmation that Epping LU Station car park is subject to TfL Byelaws as from November 2014:-
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tube_station_car_parks_2

ChirpyChicken

Go back to them( was it sharon)
Tell them under no uncertainty terms that the keeper can appeal. To read the COP
And demand a popla or you will forward it to the BPA

Curious_Sleepy_Head

@ChirpyChicken   thank you. By COP do you mean Code of Practice?
PS: It was Rebecca

ChirpyChicken

Yes just tell you can appeal as the keeper.
No arguments 

Curious_Sleepy_Head

I have looked into the railway byelaws, and it turns out that TfL land is not operated under Railway Byelaws (got it in writing from Saba Parking in response to sending a request). Quote from the email below. Does it change things?
 

A current list of the car parks which are operated under Railway Byelaws .. currently only include land which is owned by London Northwestern or West Midlands Railway. Transport for London (TfL) land is not operated under Railway Byelaws.