Companies causing distress by removing traditional payment means

dw89

Dear All,

Being of a certain age I, probably like many, have noticed large companies removing people’s ability to pay by Cash, Cheque and even Bank Transfer. I get that times move on and that the companies love to take every bit of data and money they can get away with but surely monopolies, that you have no choice to go elsewhere, cannot get away with this? I/we can boycott companies that refuse cash if we choose but those we have no choice but to deal with?

Long story short I got a call today from an older relative who was losing it because a certain company had, without notification from one bill to the next, removed all forms of payment she used for decades other than that which required using/storing bank cards with them or apps. They’re not of the age that use Pay apps or phone and they’re not ok with that and, to be honest, neither am I. There’s been a whole push to force stuff like this on people, it’s pretty obvious why and none of it is for fake stories of inclusiveness when it does the exact opposite.

I’m for customer choice, free market and everything else so I wondered how everyone else feels and what, legally is the deal when you have ‘no choice’ but to deal with a company? Trying to force people into this, and causing unnecessary upset, is pretty appalling in my book.

TIA for your thoughts/info

screech_78

Unfortunately, things change and people will get left behind if they do not accept these changes. 

user1977

Who’s the mystery company you’re talking about?

And what’s the age when it’s natural to be allergic to paying online etc? My parents have hit their 80s and are happy with such methods.

eskbanker

dw89 said:

Being of a certain age I, probably like many, have noticed large companies removing people’s ability to pay by Cash, Cheque and even Bank Transfer. I get that times move on and that the companies love to take every bit of data and money they can get away with but surely monopolies, that you have no choice to go elsewhere, cannot get away with this? I/we can boycott companies that refuse cash if we choose but those we have no choice but to deal with?

Long story short I got a call today from an older relative who was losing it because a certain company had, without notification from one bill to the next, removed all forms of payment she used for decades other than that which required using/storing bank cards with them or apps. They’re not of the age that use Pay apps or phone and they’re not ok with that and, to be honest, neither am I. There’s been a whole push to force stuff like this on people, it’s pretty obvious why and none of it is for fake stories of inclusiveness when it does the exact opposite.

I’m for customer choice, free market and everything else so I wondered how everyone else feels and what, legally is the deal when you have ‘no choice’ but to deal with a company? Trying to force people into this, and causing unnecessary upset, is pretty appalling in my book.

TIA for your thoughts/info

Who is the "certain company" who's a monopoly supplier and specifically which changes have been made to accepted payment methods, i.e. which ones have been removed and which are left?

p00hsticks

user1977 said:

Who’s the mystery company you’re talking about?

And what’s the age when it’s natural to be allergic to paying online etc? My parents have hit their 80s and are happy with such methods.

This type of discussion has been had a number of times before on these boards.

There are a number of reasons why people, particularly those living in rural areas or with very limited income, may lack access to the internet or be able to do things online (my mother is visually impaired and housebound and can no longer manage to operate a computer or smartphone ,so I have to manage her finances for her). 

Voyager2002

p00hsticks said:

user1977 said:

Who’s the mystery company you’re talking about?

And what’s the age when it’s natural to be allergic to paying online etc? My parents have hit their 80s and are happy with such methods.

This type of discussion has been had a number of times before on these boards.

There are a number of reasons why people, particularly those living in rural areas or with very limited income, may lack access to the internet or be able to do things online (my mother is visually impaired and housebound and can no longer manage to operate a computer or smartphone ,so I have to manage her finances for her). 

The Equalities Act ought to provide some protection.

DullGreyGuy

dw89 said:

Being of a certain age I, probably like many, have noticed large companies removing people’s ability to pay by Cash, Cheque and even Bank Transfer. I get that times move on and that the companies love to take every bit of data and money they can get away with but surely monopolies, that you have no choice to go elsewhere, cannot get away with this? I/we can boycott companies that refuse cash if we choose but those we have no choice but to deal with?

Which monopoly are you claiming is cashless?

dw89 said:

I’m for customer choice, free market and everything else so I wondered how everyone else feels and what, legally is the deal when you have ‘no choice’ but to deal with a company? Trying to force people into this, and causing unnecessary upset, is pretty appalling in my book.

Some customer segments are just too small or too distributed to be able to realistically target as a business and especially as "the old ways" are typically vastly more expensive to operate like the old high street broker that are now all but gone because people like my great aunt who used to love not only declaring what her valuables were but explaining to the poor bloke who, where and when each were bought for her. A 2 hour conversation to try and earn a £20 commission in a building costing £75k a year before staff costs etc just no longer adds up. 

dw89

Hi Guys,

I came on here to understand the law if anyone knew. Companies break the law all the time so I wondered what people had come across as far as that aspect of it is concerned so maybe something can be done. I don’t know myself hence the qu and if it’s been resolved before?

Thanks for the comments, all interesting. I don’t personally agree with the ‘you get left behind’ rhetoric but p00hsticks hit the nail (literally) on the head. Life is easy until it isn’t and it affects you personally when we’re all busy enough as it is. Removing basic choice that seemingly only serves financial interests to the detriment of a large amount of the population is wrong in my book. Why should an older person be forced, as an example, to hand over personal details or buy a phone or have a contract that they cannot afford and do not want when a simple bank transfer by trad phone or cheque in post allows payment without divulging any? She’s sent a cheque for years, always on time, and now it’s all gone.

It’s a large Utility provider that is the only supplier, they removed all options that she uses, namely Cash, Transfer and Cheque. The only things that remain are storing cards (credit/debit), DD, or Apps. There’s also some pay thing (don’t know what it is myself but something to do with yet another card which can’t apply to her). If this is objectively against some regulation or law I’d be interested to know and I’ll try doing something about it. 

My issue is that there’s no choice to go elsewhere so it should be inclusive and not the opposite. Surely people would be on board with that idea? We all get old and we shouldn’t have to pay to play where we have no choice in the matter with a Utility.

MattMattMattUK

dw89 said:

Dear All,

Being of a certain age I, probably like many, have noticed large companies removing people’s ability to pay by Cash, Cheque and even Bank Transfer. I get that times move on and that the companies love to take every bit of data and money they can get away with but surely monopolies, that you have no choice to go elsewhere, cannot get away with this? I/we can boycott companies that refuse cash if we choose but those we have no choice but to deal with?

Long story short I got a call today from an older relative who was losing it because a certain company had, without notification from one bill to the next, removed all forms of payment she used for decades other than that which required using/storing bank cards with them or apps. They’re not of the age that use Pay apps or phone and they’re not ok with that and, to be honest, neither am I. There’s been a whole push to force stuff like this on people, it’s pretty obvious why and none of it is for fake stories of inclusiveness when it does the exact opposite.

The reason why is cost, processing cash and cheques are very expensive and result in far more fraud. 

dw89 said:

I’m for customer choice, free market and everything else so I wondered how everyone else feels and what, legally is the deal when you have ‘no choice’ but to deal with a company? 

It largely depends what you mean by "no choice", but companies do not have to accept any particular payment methods apart from in the settlement of debt, which then falls under the legal tender rules. No consumer has the right to pay for any consumer purchase using a particular payment method. Energy suppliers used to be required to accept different payment methods but I am not sure they are compelled any more by their supply license. 

dw89 said:

Trying to force people into this, and causing unnecessary upset, is pretty appalling in my book.

TIA for your thoughts/info

People adapt, cheques were abolished in Scandinavian countries more than a decade ago, older people adapted. Scandinavian countries have all but got rid of cash, India, Japan, Korea, Australia and others are not far behind. Older people have adapted in those situations just as the vast majority have in this country. My mum is in her seventies, she uses Google wallet, she uses cards, she does not have a cheque book and rarely uses cards. Other relatives in their 70s, 80s and 90s are all the same, it is not just young people not using it, a significant majority of older people have also abandoned it. 

The costs to use cash and cheque are higher than the cost of using card and bank transfer, fewer and fewer people are using them which makes them even more expensive per use and in the case of cheques they are already below the threshold for viability, with cash getting pretty close as well.

I do not see why we have the attitude in this country that older people are incapable of learning or adapting, of why they should only use the methods they used when they were younger when older people in other countries have fully adapted to the changes and in this country in many cases older people have lead the charge with the changeover to newer forms of payment. Just as we adapted to decimalisation, the introduction of paper currency, or moved away from barter, we can also adapt to digital payments. 

The choice is going to be like it or lump it, the direction of travel is very unlikely to change and fewer and fewer businesses are going to keep accepting legacy payment methods going forward. 

eskbanker

dw89 said:

It’s a large Utility provider that is the only supplier, they removed all options that she uses, namely Cash, Transfer and Cheque. The only things that remain are storing cards (credit/debit), DD, or Apps. There’s also some pay thing (don’t know what it is myself but something to do with yet another card which can’t apply to her). If this is objectively against some regulation or law I’d be interested to know and I’ll try doing something about it. 

I don't believe there's any such regulation or law beyond generic equalities stuff, but paying by DD doesn't entail any need to use apps or online in any way, and has a guarantee to prevent (or at least resolve) problems, so what's the objection to that?  No idea why you feel so reluctant to name the company, but there may be some industry-specific rules or regulations?

dw89

Very interesting to hear all of that I take it all on board and don’t have an issue myself, I use apps like most, but although I hear your points clearly, don’t disagree with them, it’s just not applicable to all…choice or not. If it’s consumer led then fair game but in my experience it often isn’t even if it’s presented as such.

Just a qu but is not a bill, paid in arrears, a debt? Therefore shouldn’t any legal tender be applicable?

Anyway, just thought I’d ask as I didn’t know and I can relate whatever back. 

Thanks all for replying