Stamp duty question when staircasing, Shared Ownership

SDLT_Geek

wrennielink said:

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

@SDLT_Geek you seem a total legend in this area and I wondered if you could help me? I have very little faith in my solicitor and would like to know your calculations for my stamp duty owed.

I bought 50% of my property in 2011 (England) for £91k (no stamp duty paid at that time) leasehold.

I am now staircasing to 100% for £175k. The HA will be transferring the freehold to me.

Could you work out what you would expect me to pay in stamp duty please? 

Thank you in advance! 

When you bought the property in 2011, did you take the grant of a new lease from the Housing Association?  Or perhaps someone else had previously been granted a lease and assigned it to you?

If you can find that out and say, we can take it from there. 

There are likely to be follow on questions.  For example, if you took the grant of a new lease in 2011, then would you have qualified for the form of first time buyers relief which applied from 25 March 2010 up to 24 March 2012?

Thank you for your response. I bought the property as a shared ownership re-sale. The previous owners had the original lease from new build (around 2008). 

Hope this helps?

wrennielink said:

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

@SDLT_Geek you seem a total legend in this area and I wondered if you could help me? I have very little faith in my solicitor and would like to know your calculations for my stamp duty owed.

I bought 50% of my property in 2011 (England) for £91k (no stamp duty paid at that time) leasehold.

I am now staircasing to 100% for £175k. The HA will be transferring the freehold to me.

Could you work out what you would expect me to pay in stamp duty please? 

Thank you in advance! 

When you bought the property in 2011, did you take the grant of a new lease from the Housing Association?  Or perhaps someone else had previously been granted a lease and assigned it to you?

If you can find that out and say, we can take it from there. 

There are likely to be follow on questions.  For example, if you took the grant of a new lease in 2011, then would you have qualified for the form of first time buyers relief which applied from 25 March 2010 up to 24 March 2012?

I don’t recall from 2011 what was done in terms of stamp duty, however looking back at paperwork I can see the solicitors state ‘SDLT £0.00 using 1st time buyer exemption’ and that they charged me £50 for completing the SDLT return. 

I can’t find much else! 

The fact that you bought in 2011 from existing lessees a lease which had been granted in 2008, is helpful.  It means that your proposed staircasing transaction with the HA is not "linked" to any other transaction:

(a) Not to the 2008 lease, which was granted to the first lessee

(b) Not to your 2011 purchase, which was from the first lessee.

That means for SDLT it is looked at as a standalone purchase for £175,000.  I would expect the SDLT on that to be £1,000.

It would be different if when the lease was granted in 2008 an election was made to pay the SDLT at that stage on the market value.  If you can find evidence that such an election was made in 2008, there would be no more SDLT for you to pay now on staircasing out.

Am I right in thinking that you will retain the freehold?  This is not part of a back to back sale?

wrennielink

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

@SDLT_Geek you seem a total legend in this area and I wondered if you could help me? I have very little faith in my solicitor and would like to know your calculations for my stamp duty owed.

I bought 50% of my property in 2011 (England) for £91k (no stamp duty paid at that time) leasehold.

I am now staircasing to 100% for £175k. The HA will be transferring the freehold to me.

Could you work out what you would expect me to pay in stamp duty please? 

Thank you in advance! 

When you bought the property in 2011, did you take the grant of a new lease from the Housing Association?  Or perhaps someone else had previously been granted a lease and assigned it to you?

If you can find that out and say, we can take it from there. 

There are likely to be follow on questions.  For example, if you took the grant of a new lease in 2011, then would you have qualified for the form of first time buyers relief which applied from 25 March 2010 up to 24 March 2012?

Thank you for your response. I bought the property as a shared ownership re-sale. The previous owners had the original lease from new build (around 2008). 

Hope this helps?

wrennielink said:

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

@SDLT_Geek you seem a total legend in this area and I wondered if you could help me? I have very little faith in my solicitor and would like to know your calculations for my stamp duty owed.

I bought 50% of my property in 2011 (England) for £91k (no stamp duty paid at that time) leasehold.

I am now staircasing to 100% for £175k. The HA will be transferring the freehold to me.

Could you work out what you would expect me to pay in stamp duty please? 

Thank you in advance! 

When you bought the property in 2011, did you take the grant of a new lease from the Housing Association?  Or perhaps someone else had previously been granted a lease and assigned it to you?

If you can find that out and say, we can take it from there. 

There are likely to be follow on questions.  For example, if you took the grant of a new lease in 2011, then would you have qualified for the form of first time buyers relief which applied from 25 March 2010 up to 24 March 2012?

I don’t recall from 2011 what was done in terms of stamp duty, however looking back at paperwork I can see the solicitors state ‘SDLT £0.00 using 1st time buyer exemption’ and that they charged me £50 for completing the SDLT return. 

I can’t find much else! 

The fact that you bought in 2011 from existing lessees a lease which had been granted in 2008, is helpful.  It means that your proposed staircasing transaction with the HA is not "linked" to any other transaction:

(a) Not to the 2008 lease, which was granted to the first lessee

(b) Not to your 2011 purchase, which was from the first lessee.

That means for SDLT it is looked at as a standalone purchase for £175,000.  I would expect the SDLT on that to be £1,000.

It would be different if when the lease was granted in 2008 an election was made to pay the SDLT at that stage on the market value.  If you can find evidence that such an election was made in 2008, there would be no more SDLT for you to pay now on staircasing out.

Am I right in thinking that you will retain the freehold?  This is not part of a back to back sale?

Thank you. I don’t know how I would find out if the original residents paid the SDLT in 2008. Although I suspect that would have been made clear when I bought the first share in 2011.

I will be passed the freehold shortly when I purchase the remaining 50% to make it staircased to 100%.

SDLT_Geek

wrennielink said:

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

@SDLT_Geek you seem a total legend in this area and I wondered if you could help me? I have very little faith in my solicitor and would like to know your calculations for my stamp duty owed.

I bought 50% of my property in 2011 (England) for £91k (no stamp duty paid at that time) leasehold.

I am now staircasing to 100% for £175k. The HA will be transferring the freehold to me.

Could you work out what you would expect me to pay in stamp duty please? 

Thank you in advance! 

When you bought the property in 2011, did you take the grant of a new lease from the Housing Association?  Or perhaps someone else had previously been granted a lease and assigned it to you?

If you can find that out and say, we can take it from there. 

There are likely to be follow on questions.  For example, if you took the grant of a new lease in 2011, then would you have qualified for the form of first time buyers relief which applied from 25 March 2010 up to 24 March 2012?

Thank you for your response. I bought the property as a shared ownership re-sale. The previous owners had the original lease from new build (around 2008). 

Hope this helps?

wrennielink said:

SDLT_Geek said:

wrennielink said:

@SDLT_Geek you seem a total legend in this area and I wondered if you could help me? I have very little faith in my solicitor and would like to know your calculations for my stamp duty owed.

I bought 50% of my property in 2011 (England) for £91k (no stamp duty paid at that time) leasehold.

I am now staircasing to 100% for £175k. The HA will be transferring the freehold to me.

Could you work out what you would expect me to pay in stamp duty please? 

Thank you in advance! 

When you bought the property in 2011, did you take the grant of a new lease from the Housing Association?  Or perhaps someone else had previously been granted a lease and assigned it to you?

If you can find that out and say, we can take it from there. 

There are likely to be follow on questions.  For example, if you took the grant of a new lease in 2011, then would you have qualified for the form of first time buyers relief which applied from 25 March 2010 up to 24 March 2012?

I don’t recall from 2011 what was done in terms of stamp duty, however looking back at paperwork I can see the solicitors state ‘SDLT £0.00 using 1st time buyer exemption’ and that they charged me £50 for completing the SDLT return. 

I can’t find much else! 

The fact that you bought in 2011 from existing lessees a lease which had been granted in 2008, is helpful.  It means that your proposed staircasing transaction with the HA is not "linked" to any other transaction:

(a) Not to the 2008 lease, which was granted to the first lessee

(b) Not to your 2011 purchase, which was from the first lessee.

That means for SDLT it is looked at as a standalone purchase for £175,000.  I would expect the SDLT on that to be £1,000.

It would be different if when the lease was granted in 2008 an election was made to pay the SDLT at that stage on the market value.  If you can find evidence that such an election was made in 2008, there would be no more SDLT for you to pay now on staircasing out.

Am I right in thinking that you will retain the freehold?  This is not part of a back to back sale?

Thank you. I don’t know how I would find out if the original residents paid the SDLT in 2008. Although I suspect that would have been made clear when I bought the first share in 2011.

I will be passed the freehold shortly when I purchase the remaining 50% to make it staircased to 100%.

There is a clause in the usual form of shared ownership lease as to whether the election was made.  In practice they are often completed incorrectly and so cannot be relied on. 

If when you bought in 2011 you were not told that a market election had been made, then it is probably best to assume that it was made then, so your SDLT now will be £1,000.

Lollipop2026

I’m super confused and hope someone can help.. @SDLT_Geek ? Please!

we bought 50% share of a house in 2013, for a value of £93k. RICS valuation has given full market value of £255k as of today. We want to staircase to full 100%.

No SDLT has been paid at all. What would be owed?
I’ve been told about HMRC linked transaction and it looks like perhaps nothing would be owed.. but some conveyancers are quoting full SDLT rates.

Thank you!

SDLT_Geek

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81871495#Comment_81871495

The house is in England?

When you bought in 2013 was that from a social landlord who granted you a new lease?

Or perhaps you took the assignment of an existing lease from someone who had bought it from the council before?