DCB Legal response to LoC rebuttal.

richnixsea

Hi all,

I'm new to this, anyway have been reading Newb thread and other bits and bobs.

My situation is this:-

My brother (recently deceased,) received a parking charge notice for supposedly overstaying at a petrol station, he actually made two visits in a short period of time. The parking company show the first entry and the second exit as evidence.

Anyway the PCN's came addressed to me since I am the registered keeper, when I asked him about them, he was adamant that they should not be paid. Consequently, I have ignored all correspondence from the Parking company.

I then received a letter before claim from DCB Legal, following the guidance here I responded with this (enc.)

*******************

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ******
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: Euro Car Parks Ltd

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:

*****

*****
The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.

On the day in question the vehicle made two visits a short period of time apart, the claim apparently covers the entry from the first visit and the exit of the second visit. I was not the driver and in fact the driver is now deceased.

I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

*******************

DCB Legal have responded with this:-

Dear *********       1.      We write in response to correspondence received in our office from yourself on 29th December 2024.     2.      We have made a record that you dispute this Parking Charge (PC) due to not being the drive of the vehicle on the date of contravention and that the vehicle only made two short visits to the car park site without actually parking. Further to this we have made a not that the driver of the vehicle at the material time is now deceased. Lastly we have made a record of the two questions you have raised in your correspondence:     a.      Whether the debt recovery fee is inclusive of VAT   

 

b.     Whether the PC is being pleaded as damages or as consideration for parking.   

 

 

 

3.       Each of the points raised in your correspondence are dealt with in turn below. We now respond to the same as follows. 

 

 

4.      Prior to the issue of the PC, our Client applied to the DVLA for the details of the Registered Keeper of the Vehicle. Your name and address were provided. Our Client therefore correctly issued correspondence to you at that address (**************). Having not received payment, address verification was carried out prior to the Letter of Claim being sent, to which the same address was located. Accordingly the Letter of Claim was issued to you at the traced address. As your address remained the same from the issue of the original PC to date, it is reasonable to determine that Notice to Keeper was also received. 

 

 

 

5.      Our client took reasonable steps to identify you and your correct address; but it is ultimately your responsibility as the vehicles registered keeper, to update the DVLA of any changes to your registered address through the use of your vehicles V5. 

 

 

 

6.      The PC was not affixed to the vehicle because our client utilises Automatic Number Plate Recognition (“ANPR”) technology on the land where the parking charge notice was issued in order to manage the parking. This means that cameras capable of accurately recognising the vehicle registration number of a vehicle are constantly monitoring the entrance and exit to the land.  A photograph is taken of each vehicle as it enters and exits the land. Any vehicle found to have breached the terms of parking will be issued with a PC via the post.

 

 

 

7.      When parking on private land, the contractual terms of the site are set out on the signs. You are entering a contract and agreeing to the terms by parking and staying on the site. Parking in breach of the terms as stipulated on the signage means that you are then breaking the terms of the contract. 

 

 

8.      The terms and conditions on the signs stated 15 minutes maximum stay for customers of the establishment, or otherwise a PC would be issued. The vehicle was recorded on the land for 33 minutes, which at all material times was 18 minutes in excess of the maximum permitted time. Due to this the PC was issued correctly.

 

 

 

9.      The Notice to Keeper was issued to you on 21st April 2023. A copy is attached. You were afforded the opportunity to; appeal the PC, transfer liability to the driver (if it was not you) or make payment. Neither a successful appeal, nor an adequate nomination were received, yet payment remains outstanding. 

 

 

10. We are minded that you make mention of not being the driver of the vehicle on the date of contravention, however upon receipt of the notice to keeper in April 2023, liability needed to have been transferred to the appropriate party. As no such appeal or notification was sent to our client at the material time, you have now become liable for the charge as the vehicles registered keeper.  

 

 

11. The Reminder Notice was issued to you on 21st May 2023. A copy is attached. This notice reiterated that payment was outstanding and confirmed that legal action may be taken and additional costs incurred if the PC was not paid. 

 

 

12. With reference to the first question raised in your correspondence and paragraph 2a above, you would have been made aware of the £70.00 debt recovery fee upon arrival at the site. The signage would have made you aware that failure to adhere to the terms and conditions of the car park would result in a PC amounting to £100.00 but reduced to £60.00 if payment was made within the first 14 days of receipt of the PC. Further to this if the PC of £100.00 was not paid in the time frames stipulated in the enclosed Notice to Keeper, then a debt recovery fee of £70.00 would be added, as the matter will be passed of for recovery.  

 

 

 

13. Further to paragraph 11 of this correspondence above, the debt recovery fee being claimed, does not include any VAT. The HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that parking charge notices falls out of the scope of VAT. There is no requirement for a VAT invoice to be issued to you. 

 

 

 

14. With regard to the second question raised in your correspondence, and paragraph 2b above, this PC is being pleaded as a breach of contract to which damages are payable in light of the matters raised in paragraphs 7 and 8 of this correspondence.  

 

 

 

15. DCB Legal have been instructed as all previous attempts to resolve the matter have been unsuccessful.  

 

 

 

16. You have 30 days from the date of this letter to pay the outstanding balance of £170.00. Failure to do so will result in a claim being issued against you without further notice.  

 

 

 

17. Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account:-

 

 

Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account  

 

Sort Code: 20-24-09  

 

Account Number: 60964441  

 

 

18. You must quote the correct case reference (**********) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred.             

 

 

19. Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 434 0424 to make payment over the telephone.   

 

 

20. You can contact us on 0203 434 0424 to discuss payment. Our opening hours are Monday to Thursday from 8am until 5pm or Friday 8am until 4pm. 

 

 

21. You have 30 days from the date of this letter to pay the outstanding balance of £170.00. Failure to do so will result in a claim being issued against you without further notice.  

 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Isabel Mwamba 

Administration Associate 

DCB Legal Ltd  

 

Tel: 0203 434 0433 | DX 23457 Runcorn

**************

Should I respond to this?
I notice they make no concession of the requested 30 day hold period.

Thanks for any help in this matter,

Steve.

richnixsea

Copy of Letter of Claim.

[Image removed by Forum Team - un-redacted QR code]

Gr1pr

They definitely mentioned the 30 days deadline,  near the end 

Report them to HMRC with possible VAT concerns 

Then sit and wait for the inevitable court claim to arrive next month

Coupon-mad

Dear DCB Legal,

Your reply makes no sense and in particular, this:

"12. With reference to the first question raised in your correspondence and paragraph 2a above, you would have been made aware of the £70.00 debt recovery fee upon arrival at the site. The signage would have made you aware that failure to adhere to the terms and conditions of the car park would result in a PC amounting to £100.00 but reduced to £60.00 if payment was made within the first 14 days of receipt of the PC. Further to this if the PC of £100.00 was not paid in the time frames stipulated in the enclosed Notice to Keeper, then a debt recovery fee of £70.00 would be added, as the matter will be passed of for recovery."

Given the driver was my deceased brother, I would not "have been made aware of the £70.00 debt recovery fee upon arrival at the site. The signage would have made you aware...". Nope. I wasn't there that day.

But I doubt that the £70 imaginary sum was prominently displayed, if mentioned at all on the signs.  Then again, neither you nor I have actually seen the sign, have we?  And telling me about some hugely disproportionate increase weeks later, as a fait accompli ('pay up or else it increases!') in a NTK - if your client did tell me about the extortion of the fake £70 'fee', which I doubt - came far too late.

Talking of "too late" it is in fact (and in law) not too late for me to transfer liability to the driver.  The driver was:

Brother's name (deceased)
c/o the executor of the estate
Address of the executor
Postcode

I have fulfilled my obligations under the PoFA Schedule 4, which imposes no deadline except that this must be done before legal action commences. Legal action has not 'commenced' at pre-action stage.

This means that your client cannot legally pursue me now that they know the driver's name and address where his executor can be reasonably contacted.

If you don't understand the legal implications, feel free to pass this to a grown up and free yourself up for seeking out weaker victims and picking off the low hanging fruit.  

yours faithfully

richnixsea

@Coupon-mad ,

Thanks for the reply, whilst that would be a useful out unfortunately I am my brothers executor.
I have however been reading about 'double dips' that would appear to be the case here, should I appeal this or have I missed the boat at this stage?

Gr1pr

Too late to appeal once debt collectors are involved 

richnixsea

@ Gr1pr,
Might it be a defence then?

Gr1pr

Reply to them with the letter coupon mad gave you 

No court claim yet, so no defence required,  not yet 

The real question is 

Can they issue a court claim against a deceased person,  or their estate  ?

It's an alleged debt,  not an actual debt

LDast

Do send the letter anyway, even if you are the executor. It causes hunger pains in their intellectually malnourished minds.

They are going to issue a claim, no matter what. When they do, just follow the advice in the Template Defence thread and they will, in due course, discontinue.

Coupon-mad

richnixsea said:

@Coupon-mad ,

Thanks for the reply, whilst that would be a useful out unfortunately I am my brothers executor.

No I already suspected that was likely. That's not the point!

Nominating the named driver's estate c/o 'The Executor' doesn't even need your name. Just an address.  It also puts you in a different position as only the Executor of the driver.  You are no longer the liable party.

richnixsea

Thanks I figured that out, and sent the letter (email.)

I must say you guys are very helpful:-)