NHS TUPE TRANSFER & Banding

Traderjaned

Hi, I am just looking for some advice regarding TUPE transfer and NHS banding.
Back in 2019 I transferred from an NHS trust to a new provider of NHS dentistry. 

I was working as a band 5 dental nurse for the NHS trust and then after a period of time the new provider changed our banding to band 4, which myself and other nurses knew would happen.
I have just learnt that one colleague who also transferred as a band 5 at the same time is still being paid band 5 although we have exactly the same job title and description. This staff member has yearly appraisals and nobody in management has ever corrected her banding.
I just wondered if I can take further action regarding this ?
When we transferred I only worked part time as a band 5,due to the drop in banding approximately 2 years later I had to start working full time.
I managed to keep this up for 2 years but then had to drop back to part time again as I am getting too old !
I will be most grateful for any help on this matter.
Jane

Nick212010

It’s a typical response on these forums, but what have your union said?

Marcon

Traderjaned said:

Hi, I am just looking for some advice regarding TUPE transfer and NHS banding.
Back in 2019 I transferred from an NHS trust to a new provider of NHS dentistry. 

I was working as a band 5 dental nurse for the NHS trust and then after a period of time the new provider changed our banding to band 4, which myself and other nurses knew would happen.
I have just learnt that one colleague who also transferred as a band 5 at the same time is still being paid band 5 although we have exactly the same job title and description. This staff member has yearly appraisals and nobody in management has ever corrected her banding.
I just wondered if I can take further action regarding this ?
When we transferred I only worked part time as a band 5,due to the drop in banding approximately 2 years later I had to start working full time.
I managed to keep this up for 2 years but then had to drop back to part time again as I am getting too old !
I will be most grateful for any help on this matter.
Jane

Highly unlikely, I'm afraid, unless you can demonstrate that the difference is based on some unlawful form of discrimination in respect of the four of you being paid as band 4 employees. You would also need to be willing to explain how you know this, which is sometimes a bit tricky to explain unless the individual concerned volunteered it - and even then, people have been known to say things which aren't necessarily true...

Traderjaned

Hi. Thank you for getting back to me.
I am not a member of any union I am thinking of joining Unison and have emailed my employers to see if they recognise this union ? 

BW
Jane

lincroft1710

It doesn't matter whether your employers "recognise" this union or not. If it is the correct union, i.e. it represents people in the same employment field as yourself. then you just join

EnPointe

Traderjaned said:

Hi. Thank you for getting back to me.
I am not a member of any union I am thinking of joining Unison and have emailed my employers to see if they recognise this union ? 

BW
Jane

Recognition of a Union is  about  rights to engage in collective bargaining and be  on the Staff Side  committee . 

Traderjaned

Thank you for your replies, I will join unison again, I was a member previously when working for the NHS trust.
BW
Jane

Southend_2

Traderjaned said:

Thank you for your replies, I will join unison again, I was a member previously when working for the NHS trust.
BW
Jane

Be aware that Unison rules prevent them from representing you with pre existing issues. The time to join was before you had a problem. Nothing you can do about that now, but knowing that most unions won't support pre existing issues may prompt others to join their union today.

DullGreyGuy

Traderjaned said:

Hi, I am just looking for some advice regarding TUPE transfer and NHS banding.
Back in 2019 I transferred from an NHS trust to a new provider of NHS dentistry. 

I was working as a band 5 dental nurse for the NHS trust and then after a period of time the new provider changed our banding to band 4, which myself and other nurses knew would happen.
I have just learnt that one colleague who also transferred as a band 5 at the same time is still being paid band 5 although we have exactly the same job title and description. This staff member has yearly appraisals and nobody in management has ever corrected her banding.
I just wondered if I can take further action regarding this ?
When we transferred I only worked part time as a band 5,due to the drop in banding approximately 2 years later I had to start working full time.
I managed to keep this up for 2 years but then had to drop back to part time again as I am getting too old !
I will be most grateful for any help on this matter.
Jane

Some organisations have their own special rules that apply to HR matters that go above and beyond what the law requires, again the organisation can decide if all of those rules must be followed blindly or if there can be exceptions made. I cannot comment anything on the NHS and any rules it may have. 

In many organisations I've worked they have the concept of grades and job families. Some job families cover all the grades, many cover only a range of them as there is a cap and a floor to how senior/junior you can be in some jobs compared to the full workforce. Job titles are totally independent and may be differentiated by grade or not. 

So back in my Strategy days, which was effectively an internal consultancy, everyone in the team were called a Project Executive and we all had the same job description no matter if you were the just off the graduate scheme guy earning £25k as a TP2 or the ex Mckinsey Partner who was an SM2 and on £150k. Despite that harmony if one of the MDs came to us and said they were thinking of making a £12bn acquisition of a competitor and wanted someone to lead it for them you know that the graduate guy isnt going to be the one offered up.

Having different people with the same title and job description but at different grades and/or pay scales is not a legal issue. You'd expect those operating at the higher levels are measured by a different yard stick but there is no legal requirement for that to be so. 

The only way there is an issue is if the issue is due to racism, sexism or any of the other protected characteristics

LightFlare

The only point I can think of however is that under AfC jobs and descriptions were matched against profiles which were then attached to the banding.  (The whole point being to standardise job value:pay across the multitude of professions)

Two jobs with the exact same description should be matched identically and attract the same banding.

A query to HR would be my suggestion maybe followed by a FOI for the matching documents

Worse case scenario is the colleague gets down banded though which could affect any working dynamic in the future