Transfer of liability - or does this count as non-PoFA?

Bixer

Hi all,

My partner received a PCN dated 17th December from an incident on 15th November (issued date 19th November) - this one however stating that the early window had already passed and we now owed £100. This was the first correspondence we'd received of any kind however, the supposed reduced amount letter was either never sent, or just got lost in the post.   

It's from UKPS and I pulled into a parking entrance to let my partner get in the car, turned around straight away and left. The evidence images provided on their site even show us having been there for less than 90 seconds. 

I've read the newbies thread - we've appealed (not naming the driver as per the advice) and unsurprisingly they've rejected so now I know it's just ignore, ignore, ignore until/if we get a letter of/before claim. Their appeal rejection directed us towards the IAS to appeal further so as per the newbies thread I'm not going to bother. 

As mentioned I was driving at the time, however my spouse is the RK and is a real worrier about this kind of thing. I've assured her it'll be fine and even directed her to read through the same thread, but she's still way more likely to cave and just pay the fee so if advisable I would be more than happy to take the responsibility on myself and ride it out. 

My question is before I do so, would it be a mistake to get her to fill out the transfer of liability slip and name me as the driver? I have read the section about PoFA wording but I must admit I'm not 100% sure I fully understand it, and so obviously if that might be the best way of quashing it I don't want to jeopardise that.  


A newbie here myself so I can't post pictures yet (I don't think?), so this is word-for-word all that was written in the letter; 

'Payment for the Parking Charge Notice (number) is overdue. 
Please pay the charge of £100 now. 

To (name)

We recently issued Parking Charge Notice (PCN) (number) to you because your vehicle was parked in contravention to the terms and conditions at (premises) on (date) at (time). The contravention for this PCN is: Permit Required

The full amount of £100 now needs to be paid. Your opportunity to the reduced amount of £60.00 has now passed, since you didn't make the payment within 14 days of our first notice to you.

The Vehicle Keeper Details were obtained from the DVLA through the Reasonable Clause criteria of pursuing an outstanding parking charge. 

As the contracted agent the creditor, UKPS Limited now request that the amount of £100.00 is paid using one of the payment methods described in this letter'. 

Then there's a payment slip at the bottom, and nothing on the back about the Protection of Freedoms Act, just info on how to appeal and a small bit about Registered Keeper Details and Data Processing (they mention something about Road Vehicles Regulations 2002 here). 

Is that PoFA wording? I'm assuming it's not almost purely because it's passed the 14 day period, right? But again I'm not 100% sure what is. 

I suppose my main fear is what if they did send an earlier notice and it did just get lost, would that be a mark against us? 

Many thanks for all your help and all the incredible resources on this forum!

LDast

Anyone can post images, newbie or not. You stated: "My partner received a PCN dated 17th December from an incident on 15th November (issued date 19th November) -" which is a bit confusing. Are you saying that a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) was "issued" on 17th November but only received on 17th December or are you referring to a reminder notice received on 17th December?

PoFA does not simply rely on the wording in the NtK. There are other factors to take into account such as deadlines and signage at the location to name a few.

What is the actual allegation in the NtK? If their only evidence is less than 5 minutes on location, then they have not allowed a consideration period in breach of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).

Bixer

Ah my apologies, I'm sure I saw some kind of notice that I couldn't post pictures until I'd been active for a while, but my mistake! Here's what we received:



And then here's the appeal response:



And if it's of any use, here's the primary evidence they reference on their site (red circles added by them, not me)



Their case essentially that they do offer a consideration period (there are 3 other photos just showing me arrive and indicating to leave within 90 seconds), but by picking up a passenger I willingly accepted the terms and conditions of parking. 

As mentioned, that first letter is the first correspondence of any kind we received from them. That itself is clearly meant as a reminder, but we never received an initial notice to begin with! 

ChirpyChicken

Ignore UKPS. Pointless appeal to the lm

Bixer

I appreciate I can ignore all future correspondence from them/debt collectors - but also ignore as in don't even worry about the transfer of liability? As I say if, IF, it were to go all the way to court some way off in the future, I'd be much happier if it was me and my partner didn't have to concern herself with it (she would 100% cave and pay the then inflated fee at that point). 

fisherjim

If it's permit only they were not offering a contract so have offered no service to charge for don't worry about it, if she wants to transfer liability as she is scared of a dimwitted scam do it.

Coupon-mad

I'd say transfer liability to protect her because she's not robust enough. You are!

Bixer

Perfect, thank you.

Just thought I'd better double-check that wasn't a humongous mistake. I mean, I know it sort of is as we don't legally have to, but my partner is the epitome of a goody two-shoes and this has already caused her more anxiety than it ought to, so I'm more than happy to be the sole recipient of as many letters as they want to waste their time drafting. 

Thanks again for all your help and all the incredible resources on this site. I suppose I don't need to update any further unless in a few months (years?) I receive a letter of/before claim!

Fruitcake

You can transfer liability at any point up to receiving a court claim, so it doesn't need to be done straight away.

Personally I would appeal as keeper to the IAS, simply becuse it costs them time and money, but it won't hurt if you would rather ignore.

Do complain to the landowner and your MP. The signs are prohibitive and incapable of forming a contract with a driver, dropping off/picking up is not parking as determined in the persuasive appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard.
Complaints and appeals should all come from the keeper, who may not even have been in the car at the time,  without identifying the driver.

In you MP complaint, ask when the new mandatory government code of practice is going to be introduced to support the 2019 parking bill. Point out that the IPC and BPA have recently issued a joint CoP, in my opinion to mislead and confuse the public, but it is not mandatory and does not support motorists, only the interests of the unregulated private parking industry.

Please also sign the petition in this post, and get friends and family to do the same.

Parked in a disabled Bay, no ticket - Page 3 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Bixer

Hi all,

Apologies for the bump/update, just thought I'd maybe better seek some advice before doing anything further here. 

So as discussed above my wife emailed UKPS to transfer liability to me, but then a week or so later she still received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus addressed to her regarding the bogus PCN.

I subsequently then drafted a physical letter from her (signed from her) stating that she'd already transferred liability, don't contact me again etc, but then fast forward another few weeks and yesterday she still receives yet another letter from Debt Recovery Plus addressed to her. 

I'm aware we've already slightly weakened our position somewhat by transferring liability to me (well, not that they've acknowledged it...) so I'm just wondering if I should actually do anything here or just to continue to ignore and let them keep digging themselves into a hole by contacting the wrong person.

Is this not a breach of GDPR, can I claim against them for doing this? My initial thought was to scan both letters from Debt Recovery Plus and attach them to an email to UKPS reiterating that we've transferred liability and if they continue to harass my wife we'll seek legal action, but again I thought I was better off checking with those of you with more experience before doing anything at all! 

ChirpyChicken

debt recovery plus are harmless