do I need to do a self assessment?

Brie

and if so when does it need to be done?

OK - so I tried to do a self assessment last year, might have been in January.  The only reason I was doing this was because I started to get a foreign state pension paid to me and because it's a low amount it isn't taxed in that country.  So I assumed it should be taxed here.

So I did the assessment to advise HMRC of this additional, pitifully small amount I'd been paid.  The response I got back was the equivalent of an adult patting a child on the head and saying "very nice dear, now go along and play".  

Now I've had that foreign pension being paid for a full year.  It's still not a huge amount (maybe £1200??) but as far as I can see there's no way for HMRC to know about it unless I tell them.  I also don't have any official notice of the total from the foreign government.  

So do I just ignore it?  Or should I do something again on the basis that I did something last year and so it will be expected?

Small complication1 - I'd be guessing how much to submit on an assessment as most of the money is still in the other country.

Small complication2 - my OH has also started to receive this foreign state pension but it's even tiddlier than my amount but also can't be paid as there's no agreement as to what bank account will accept the payment and that can't be done for a few months yet.  It's very unlikely that he'll need to pay tax at all until he gets his UK SP so no tax will be due despite having started to receive a private pension.  I'm assuming until he does get his SP that nothing is required.

Notepad_Phil

I'm not an expert, but Mrs Notepad's mother had to fill in a self- assessment tax form every year because she got one foreign dividend, so I would have thought that you too would need to fill in the ' foreign' section of a self- assessment as per https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/paying-tax  and https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/foreign-income-thats-taxed-differently

I'm not sure what you mean by most of the money is still in the other country, it's the payments you receive that I would assume you are taxed on.

DullGreyGuy

Brie said:

and if so when does it need to be done?

OK - so I tried to do a self assessment last year, might have been in January.  The only reason I was doing this was because I started to get a foreign state pension paid to me and because it's a low amount it isn't taxed in that country.  So I assumed it should be taxed here.

So I did the assessment to advise HMRC of this additional, pitifully small amount I'd been paid.  The response I got back was the equivalent of an adult patting a child on the head and saying "very nice dear, now go along and play".  

Now I've had that foreign pension being paid for a full year.  It's still not a huge amount (maybe £1200??) but as far as I can see there's no way for HMRC to know about it unless I tell them.  I also don't have any official notice of the total from the foreign government.  

So do I just ignore it?  Or should I do something again on the basis that I did something last year and so it will be expected?

Small complication1 - I'd be guessing how much to submit on an assessment as most of the money is still in the other country.

Small complication2 - my OH has also started to receive this foreign state pension but it's even tiddlier than my amount but also can't be paid as there's no agreement as to what bank account will accept the payment and that can't be done for a few months yet.  It's very unlikely that he'll need to pay tax at all until he gets his UK SP so no tax will be due despite having started to receive a private pension.  I'm assuming until he does get his SP that nothing is required.

You need to tell HMRC if there is any reason to do a self assessment tax return, you similarly need to tell them if there is any reason why you no longer need to do a self assessment tax return. Once you tell them they will expect one every year until you tell them otherwise. They will have also been contacting you if their records show you should be doing one. 

Tax returns have to be submitted and anything due to be paid by the 31 January 

Bookworm105

you say you "tried" last year - does that mean you then did or did not submit one?
I assume you have already worked your way through this checklist?
Self Assessment tax returns: Who must send a tax return - GOV.UK
when you look on your govt gateway account/personal tax account does it show that an SA is expected for this year?

you are UK tax resident, but from what you say not all of your foreign income is received in the UK?
Nonetheless it appears at least some foreign income is received in the UK and, unlike your OH, you are above UK tax threshold so any further income not yet taxed is indeed taxable.

Brie

OK so I've done my tax return.  Difficult as I don't have all the information and can't see where it would be available.  Like interest payments as none of my online banking allows me to go back far enough to get the info.  Haven't been sent anything by anyone either so I'm basically pulling figures out of mid air which isn't optimal.  

And not surprisingly it appears there is money owed.  Not a lot and I will pay it but have no idea where that needs to go!   Do they send me something?  I think I got something in the post from them but they didn't seem to want any money last year for whatever reason.

@Notepad_Phil
You asked I'm not sure what you mean by most of the money is still in the other country, it's the payments you receive that I would assume you are taxed on.
Yes - the money is still sitting in my bank account over there.  So I've no idea what that is in £££ so have said I was guessing.  I also have the problem that if I do get any official tax documents about it it will be based on a calendar year, not a UK tax year, so won't match up easily.  I did transfer a small portion about 18 months back but don't have any details now about the exchange rate and there was other money that got transferred at the same time so it's not like I can look at a transaction on my UK bank account and know it's for the pension.

Nomunnofun1

Brie said:

OK so I've done my tax return.  Difficult as I don't have all the information and can't see where it would be available.  Like interest payments as none of my online banking allows me to go back far enough to get the info.  Haven't been sent anything by anyone either so I'm basically pulling figures out of mid air which isn't optimal.  

And not surprisingly it appears there is money owed.  Not a lot and I will pay it but have no idea where that needs to go!   Do they send me something?  I think I got something in the post from them but they didn't seem to want any money last year for whatever reason.

@Notepad_Phil
You asked I'm not sure what you mean by most of the money is still in the other country, it's the payments you receive that I would assume you are taxed on.
Yes - the money is still sitting in my bank account over there.  So I've no idea what that is in £££ so have said I was guessing.  I also have the problem that if I do get any official tax documents about it it will be based on a calendar year, not a UK tax year, so won't match up easily.  I did transfer a small portion about 18 months back but don't have any details now about the exchange rate and there was other money that got transferred at the same time so it's not like I can look at a transaction on my UK bank account and know it's for the pension.

I believe that, somewhere in your self assessment account there is an option to pay. 

If you can’t find it:

https://www.gov.uk/pay-self-assessment-tax-bill

You could also download the HMRC app which is actually quite good!

HMRC will not send you anything. 

zedonk

The simplest way is probably to get the HMRC app on your phone. It tells you how much is due when and you can pay direct from the app.

Hopefully you ticked the box on your return to say that some of your figures were estimates?

eskbanker

Brie said:

OK so I've done my tax return.  Difficult as I don't have all the information and can't see where it would be available.  Like interest payments as none of my online banking allows me to go back far enough to get the info.  Haven't been sent anything by anyone either so I'm basically pulling figures out of mid air which isn't optimal.

It's your responsibility to pay the correct amount of tax on your income, which in turn places a responsibility on you to keep track of all of your taxable income.

Are you really saying that you have current or savings accounts where you neither have paper statements nor the ability to view online equivalents, considerably further back than the most recently completed tax year?  With whom?

Notepad_Phil

Brie said:

...
You asked I'm not sure what you mean by most of the money is still in the other country, it's the payments you receive that I would assume you are taxed on.
Yes - the money is still sitting in my bank account over there.  So I've no idea what that is in £££ so have said I was guessing.  I also have the problem that if I do get any official tax documents about it it will be based on a calendar year, not a UK tax year, so won't match up easily.  I did transfer a small portion about 18 months back but don't have any details now about the exchange rate and there was other money that got transferred at the same time so it's not like I can look at a transaction on my UK bank account and know it's for the pension.

Hi @Brie my understanding is that the HMRC provides a list of exchange rates that you will need to use. Note the date you need to use would be the date that your pension provider paid your pension out, not the date of when you then decide to transfer any of it across to the UK bank account.

If you do a google then it looks like https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/exchange-rates-for-customs-and-vat is the place to go for these rates. If you're not sure of the exact dates then from that URL you can get to a list of exchange rates that are averaged over the year, so as long as you know the year then hopefully you'll be okay.

Brie

Nomunnofun1 said:

Brie said:

OK so I've done my tax return.  Difficult as I don't have all the information and can't see where it would be available.  Like interest payments as none of my online banking allows me to go back far enough to get the info.  Haven't been sent anything by anyone either so I'm basically pulling figures out of mid air which isn't optimal.  

And not surprisingly it appears there is money owed.  Not a lot and I will pay it but have no idea where that needs to go!   Do they send me something?  I think I got something in the post from them but they didn't seem to want any money last year for whatever reason.

@Notepad_Phil
You asked I'm not sure what you mean by most of the money is still in the other country, it's the payments you receive that I would assume you are taxed on.
Yes - the money is still sitting in my bank account over there.  So I've no idea what that is in £££ so have said I was guessing.  I also have the problem that if I do get any official tax documents about it it will be based on a calendar year, not a UK tax year, so won't match up easily.  I did transfer a small portion about 18 months back but don't have any details now about the exchange rate and there was other money that got transferred at the same time so it's not like I can look at a transaction on my UK bank account and know it's for the pension.

I believe that, somewhere in your self assessment account there is an option to pay. 

If you can’t find it:

https://www.gov.uk/pay-self-assessment-tax-bill

You could also download the HMRC app which is actually quite good!

HMRC will not send you anything. 

Thanks - that link works a treat.  Don't like having money apps on my phone.  

So I've paid but before I did the website said I was owed £10.  I was tempted to decrease my payment by £10 but I don't want to get into a silly expensive battle for not paying enough.  I'll leave things as they are now and wait to see what happens.  

@eskbanker - the biggest problem is the foreign account that only goes back 18 months max so doesn't cover the whole tax year in question.  I did assume I would be sent tax forms of some sort by that government but I guess they have gone completely online.  Doesn't help me though as I'm not able to access that tax account as I haven't paid tax there for a couple of decades.

Nomunnofun1

Brie said:

Nomunnofun1 said:

Brie said:

OK so I've done my tax return.  Difficult as I don't have all the information and can't see where it would be available.  Like interest payments as none of my online banking allows me to go back far enough to get the info.  Haven't been sent anything by anyone either so I'm basically pulling figures out of mid air which isn't optimal.  

And not surprisingly it appears there is money owed.  Not a lot and I will pay it but have no idea where that needs to go!   Do they send me something?  I think I got something in the post from them but they didn't seem to want any money last year for whatever reason.

@Notepad_Phil
You asked I'm not sure what you mean by most of the money is still in the other country, it's the payments you receive that I would assume you are taxed on.
Yes - the money is still sitting in my bank account over there.  So I've no idea what that is in £££ so have said I was guessing.  I also have the problem that if I do get any official tax documents about it it will be based on a calendar year, not a UK tax year, so won't match up easily.  I did transfer a small portion about 18 months back but don't have any details now about the exchange rate and there was other money that got transferred at the same time so it's not like I can look at a transaction on my UK bank account and know it's for the pension.

I believe that, somewhere in your self assessment account there is an option to pay. 

If you can’t find it:

https://www.gov.uk/pay-self-assessment-tax-bill

You could also download the HMRC app which is actually quite good!

HMRC will not send you anything. 

Thanks - that link works a treat.  Don't like having money apps on my phone.  

So I've paid but before I did the website said I was owed £10.  I was tempted to decrease my payment by £10 but I don't want to get into a silly expensive battle for not paying enough.  I'll leave things as they are now and wait to see what happens.  

@eskbanker - the biggest problem is the foreign account that only goes back 18 months max so doesn't cover the whole tax year in question.  I did assume I would be sent tax forms of some sort by that government but I guess they have gone completely online.  Doesn't help me though as I'm not able to access that tax account as I haven't paid tax there for a couple of decades.

Your tax account operates like a credit card bill - there must have been a £10 credit on it. I would have deducted it. In any case I doubt HMRC would have come knocking for a tenner.