Scottish private ticket but English keeper, help required.

Dastardly64

Hi,

I got a private ticket in a euro car parks controlled car park in Scotland recently. The car park offered 2 hours free parking. What I neglected to notice was I needed a free ticket to gain this two hours so got a ticket for failing to display a ticket. I was there under an hour. 

My question is this. I’m aware there is no keeper liability in Scotland but there is in England. The ‘transgression’ occurred in Scotland, however the registered keeper is in England. Can anyone tell me if I need to pay the ticket as keeper liability will be assumed or if I can refuse to name the driver as no keeper liability is assumed in Scotland? I’m confused as to if English or Scottish law will be applicable?

I’ve searched and found lots of information on Scottish people getting tickets in England but not this way around. 

Any help appreciated.

Fruitcake

The alleged event occurred in Scotland where there is no keeper liability (yet).

Plan A is always a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP. 

If the keeper wishes to appeal (once Plan A has been exhausted), then they could simply state the driver's details will not be given, and that since the alleged event occurred in Scotland where there is no keeper liability, they should cancel now to save themselves money.

After that, go into ignore mode unless the keeper receives a letter of/before claim, or a court claim.

Note that if the driver didn't know they needed to obtain a free ticket to get free parking, then the signs must have been inadequate and incapable of forming a contract with the driver, so the keeper should add that to their complaints.

In the MP complaint, ask when the government mandatory parking code of practice is going to be introduced. Unfortunately, some MPs think the recently introduced joint IPC/BPA CoP is it. It is not, and only serves the unregulated private parking industry. Make sure the keeper's MP is aware of this.

While Coupon-mad's work on the Govt Private Parking Steering Group continues, motorists can also help keep the pressure on Govt by signing/share Stanley Luckhurst's re-issued petition (the previous one closed early due to the general election).

Bring the Parking Code of Practice into law, as per the 2019 Act of Parliament.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701453

The petition runs for 6 months closing 6 June 2025

Dastardly64

Thanks for the swift reply.

The keeper has of yet to receive a letter as the ticket was placed under the screen of the car.

The sign says “ 2 Hours free parking with a displayed ticket” so would seem adequate. Like many, the driver entering the car park glanced at the sign and mentally just saw the 2 hours free and neglected,to read further. One wonders how often this must occur?

I have never heard of your plan A. What is the logic behind doing this please?

Fruitcake

Inadequate signage occurs an awful lot across thousands of parking sites.

As for Plan A, a landowner cancellation will kill it dead with no further hassle or worry. It also lets the landowner know there are problems on their land, and with the unregulated private sub-contractor they have employed, for whom they are jointly and severally liable. They might just decide to do something about the problem if they get enough complaints, especially if their business is adversely affected by the actions of their agents.

Some PPCs whinge that they have forked out money if they are asked by the landowner to cancel after an appeal, which is why Plan A is PLan A and not Plan B for a reason.

Since the vehicle received a NTD that was then passed to the keeper (who in the eyes of the law is completely separate entity), we always advise to wait until around day 26 from the date of the alleged event before appealing.

MPs/the government are the only ones who can end the parking misery that affects about 12 million people a year. If 12 million people a year filled MPs' inboxes, there would be no time for the government to do anything else and, the problem would be quickly resolved.

Please do sign the petition, and get friends and family to do the same.

Dastardly64

So the appeal says ‘sorry, but I am under no obligation to identify the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged incident under Scottish law. I hereby consider this matter to be closed.’

Dastardly64

I hit post comment by mistake there and am not sure how to edit the post. The second question was, how do I find out the landowners details as opposed to the parking company and along what route does my appeal go to them?

Fruitcake

Newbies can't edit posts until after a combination of a certain length of time, and a certain number of posts. As far as I know, nobody has ever been able to work out what that combination is.
If an urgent edit is needed (somebody has posted persona information), then anyone can click on the report button below that post.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before. Google streetview images may show a landowner or managing agent name on information signs if the site is a retail park.

Forum regular @Umkomaas has produced this guide to finding a landowner, although there is no point buying a copy of the title from the Land Registry unless you get a court claim.

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND: 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

Once you have identified a landowner or land agent, there should be contact details and a complaints policy posted on their website. The CEOemail website will also give contact details for the person at the top of the food chain.

Dastardly64

Gallagher retail park Dundee is the location.

parkopedia list it and I note many complaints similar to mine. 

LDast

The location of the alleged parking contravention determines which country’s laws apply — in this case, Scottish law applies because the car park is in Scotland. Therefore, keeper liability cannot be enforced under Scottish law, even if the registered keeper is based in England.

Since keeper liability doesn’t exist in Scotland, the parking company must identify and pursue the driver who parked the car. If they cannot prove who the driver was, they have no case. Do not identify the driver. If you refuse to name the driver, the parking company will struggle to take further action. In Scotland, if the driver’s identity is unknown, the parking company has no grounds to pursue the registered keeper.The relevant law is based on where the parking event occurred, not where the registered keeper resides. Since the incident took place in Scotland, English law does not apply, and they cannot use PoFA to hold the keeper liable. Even if they threaten court action, it would have to take place in a Scottish court, where PoFA doesn't apply.

Euro Car Parks (or any private parking company) will not take you to court in Scotland.  The lack of keeper liability means they would need to prove who the driver was at the time of the alleged contravention. If you don’t identify the driver, it’s impossible for them to win in court.

Taking someone to court in Scotland involves significant upfront costs for the parking company. Filing a claim in Sheriff Court would cost them:

£132 to £250 (depending on claim value).
Legal fees for representation £500+ (minimum)
Additional admin and staff time £100+
Travel expenses (if required) £100 to £300 (depending on location)

Total upfront costs £750 to £1,000+

Compare this to the average parking charge of around £100 to £170. Even if they win the case, they would lose money overall, because court costs are rarely fully recoverable.

Instead of taking people to court in Scotland, parking companies rely heavily on debt collection tactics, which are much cheaper and less risky. Debt collectors send threatening letters to pressure the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying, knowing that many will pay out of fear and ignorance — even if there’s no legal basis for the charge. Most sheeple don’t understand Scottish law and assume they’re liable.

Personally, I'd advise you to just get on with your life and ignore everything they send you. Nothing will come of it.

Dastardly64

Thank you so much for your replies. 

Interestingly today, over a tea and biscuit I scrutinised the ticket and noticed this on the rear -

please note tickets issued in Scotland and Northern Ireland can only be appealed by the driver of the vehicle.

That pretty much tells me the same as above, they cannot hold the keeper liable and they can only deal with the driver. The keepers lips are SEALED! 

Thank you all for your help.

Coupon-mad

Dastardly64 said:

Thank you so much for your replies. 

Interestingly today, over a tea and biscuit I scrutinised the ticket and noticed this on the rear -

please note tickets issued in Scotland and Northern Ireland can only be appealed by the driver of the vehicle.

That pretty much tells me the same as above, they cannot hold the keeper liable and they can only deal with the driver. The keepers lips are SEALED! 

Thank you all for your help.

You don't need to do anything.

Just ignore them apart from the complaint to the retail park, without implying who was driving.