CGT on Investment Funds (it's that time of year)

martindias

droopsnoot said:

All of my GIA stuff was bought in the Nationwide back in around 2000, pretty much all of the funds have changed names and been re-issued with different numbers of units over the years, and I'm also struggling to figure out exactly what I'm supposed to be paying as I've been gradually transferring from the GIA to my ISA, just to not have to cover it on the self-assessment every year. Neither Nationwide nor Aegon (the people who took it over) can provide any information (because that counts as tax advice), and while I have stacks and stacks of paperwork, it doesn't really make anything much clearer. I found two ways to calculate it when there have been disposals, and both came out below the CGT threshold last time I did my SA - now that has dropped for 2023/2024, I have got two massively different figures and no real idea which is correct. And of course, leaving it until now is always the best idea.

Exactly where i am at. I think by the end of this week I am going to have to pin a dart on the board and write in that as my gain. If HMRC ever come looking for my calculations then i'll have to throw myself on my sword and say 'you do it'!

martindias

EdSwippet said:

martindias said:

I don't really understand why HL can't work this out for you at the click of a database button. i'm not asking them to work out my tax - simply what my capital gain is, as they have all the data.

Not necessarily. HL cannot know whether or not you hold any shares of the same fund or company on another platform.

Section 104 and multiple brokerages - HMRC Community Forum

In practice, you may not hold any of the same shares elsewhere, so that in your particular case, HL could provide an accurate number. However, awkward or not (and I'll vote for awkward), HMRC rules for CGT makes it broadly impossible for any platform or broker to calculate a customer's capital gains with any confidence, so they're forced to leave it up to you.

And yes, it's a PITA. But then, so is almost everything about tax anyway.

Thoroughly understand this and I was not asking HL to calculate by entire CGT - simply to give me the figures in one place (instead of a series of contract notes embedded in their dashboard) to enable me to put them in a spread sheet and do the needful myself (albeit I then hand the figures to an accountant who then submits my returns). I have so far trawled the menus and found historial by prices for 2 accumulation investment funds (taken days) but not for the third fund i sold which was an HL Managed Fund that was closed 18 months ago. Even their archive menu doesn't give me the detail i need to work out the Capital Gain on that one. Sadly i think it is down to guess work and take the consequences.

I just can't understand why taxing should be soooo taxing - I am happy to pay what is due, it is just thoroughly complicated to work out what that is!

dunstonh

I just can't understand why taxing should be soooo taxing - I am happy to pay what is due, it is just thoroughly complicated to work out what that is!

platform functionality is something you should consider as part of your platform research.  There are plenty of platforms available and if you don't like your current one because it lacks functionality, then move to one that does offer that functionality.

ColdIron

martindias said:

EdSwippet said:

martindias said:

I don't really understand why HL can't work this out for you at the click of a database button. i'm not asking them to work out my tax - simply what my capital gain is, as they have all the data.

Not necessarily. HL cannot know whether or not you hold any shares of the same fund or company on another platform.

Section 104 and multiple brokerages - HMRC Community Forum

In practice, you may not hold any of the same shares elsewhere, so that in your particular case, HL could provide an accurate number. However, awkward or not (and I'll vote for awkward), HMRC rules for CGT makes it broadly impossible for any platform or broker to calculate a customer's capital gains with any confidence, so they're forced to leave it up to you.

And yes, it's a PITA. But then, so is almost everything about tax anyway.

Thoroughly understand this and I was not asking HL to calculate by entire CGT - simply to give me the figures in one place (instead of a series of contract notes embedded in their dashboard) to enable me to put them in a spread sheet and do the needful myself

I know that it's not what you want to hear but using a GIA comes with the responsibility of maintaining accurate and complete records yourself. If you had started that spreadsheet from the beginning your current task would be quite easy

Capital gain tax is easily managed but does require planning

but not for the third fund i sold which was an HL Managed Fund that was closed 18 months ago. Even their archive menu doesn't give me the detail i need to work out the Capital Gain on that one. 

Have you looked at View old holdings next to Display settings in the Fund and Share dashboard? Mine shows me every contract note I've ever received on old holdings from over a decade. It can be useful for Corporate Actions if your current contract note record seems abbreviated

Sadly i think it is down to guess work and take the consequences.

Although HL's 'Cost' figure is not guaranteed for many reasons it's better than guessing or not using a cost figure at all

I only use investment trusts in a GIA but I can confirm that HL do take into account trading costs and stamp duty in their 'Cost' as their figures match my Excel calculations since 2014 to the penny. I can't vouch for dividends or equalisation with OEICs or ERI with ETFs (I strongly doubt they are included) and I wouldn't die in a ditch in a fight with HMRC using them but as I say, in lieu of actual records, it's better than guessing

martindias said:

Yes i do see the profit loss on their dashboard but this doesn't help when liquidating portions of holdings - or does it?

Bearing in mind all the above you could simply divide the simple gain (Value - Cost) by the number of shares or units for your weighted average cost per share/unit

Edit: I don't know if this will help but when you are working out your weighted average cost per share don't make the schoolboy error of thinking sales have any effect on your cost figure, they don't

cheerfulcat

martindias said:

I find digging around their platform, through loads of different menus, pages and options, a complete nightmare. The if/when i find the history of unit purchases working out the average buying price is mind boggling.

Are you looking in the right place? If you go to your account and click on the name of the stock that should take you to a list of all of your transactions in that stock, with links to contract notes and information on weighted prices etc. If you no longer hold the investment,  there is a link to click under “withdraw money” which says “view old holdings” - this will take you to a list of previously held stocks/collective investments. Again, clicking on the name will bring up a list of transactions.

martindias

I did finally find the option in the View Old Holdings section and have finally completed my tax returns. A bit nervous that i seem to end the year with a CGT loss to carry forward. That was a surprise!